The (not really) Official Endgame Summon Thread!

MaxWilson · #1 June 6th, 2008, 07:17 PM

Death: Grim Reaper, stealthy, autocasts Wind of Death before every battle. Has a magical scythe with okay stats + cause decay.

And... that's all I've got today, besides reminding you of the oft-mentioned Hecatonchires. Honestly it's hard to come up with new summons that aren't pretenders because KO knows so much more mythology than I do. I'd suggest Lovecraft but to be honest I'm not even totally sure what Shoggoths are.

-Max

Taqwus · #2 June 6th, 2008, 07:23 PM

Shoggoths are already in the game -- think Othernesses.

Not sure that I'd agree that every path requires a super-summon. The problem is to balance nations, not to balance paths; if one nation has a very strong early game with cheap F9W9 but cap-only sacreds, and another comes into its prime during late-game due to summons et al, and another is best suited towards lavish but expensive scales for cranking out high-quality conventional armies during a good midgame -- that seems reasonable. No need for mirror-image balance.

llamabeast · #3 June 6th, 2008, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Not sure that I'd agree that every path requires a super-summon. The problem is to balance nations, not to balance paths; if one nation has a very strong early game with cheap F9W9 but cap-only sacreds, and another comes into its prime during late-game due to summons et al, and another is best suited towards lavish but expensive scales for cranking out high-quality conventional armies during a good midgame -- that seems reasonable. No need for mirror-image balance.

I very much agree with this, it's fundamental to the Dominions design philosophy. So each path should have a different feel and speciality.

It would, however, be nice if every path had at least some approach to the end game. Some paths just fizzle out (water and fire spring to mind), and if you hope to win a long game with a nation specialising in them you have to diversify to death or something. That's what we want to be fixing.

Aezeal · #4 June 6th, 2008, 07:30 PM

My sandworm from the nomads and genies mod

I think it is a pretty nice end game beastie.

Beholders could do all kind of stuff, I couldn't see them as on par with tarts or seraphs I must admit but a bit less strong options wouldn't be that bad either.

wyrm based amphibious creatures wouldn't be bad either (midgard serpent like)

Son of Fenrir like beasties (or other large beasties) could be an option

ow and my favorite.. a DECENT SC phoenix summon (the pretender kinda... ehm sucks???)

Hydra mage summon would be nice too (commander and some item slots)

sector24 · #5 June 6th, 2008, 08:31 PM

Another problem (which actually makes Dominions more charming than other games) is that the game really steers away from stereotypical fantasy. I'm sure everyone has noticed that none of the Norse inspired nations have dwarves, because dwarves and elves are totally overdone from a fantasy perspective. I suspect that's also why there aren't as many dragons in the game as there could be.

I also think "fantasy" fantasy creatures (those with no mythological basis) are not in the game simply because they are out of scope. But I guess they'd be fine for brainstorming purposes. So here we go:

Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
Dragon King Zahhak (From the Iranian national epic Shahnameh)
Wendigo (someone else mentioned Sasquatch, basically the same)
Giant Spider (Shelob from LoTR, Anansi, etc.)
Basilisk/Cockatrice/Manticore/Chimera (These are somewhat covered by the Cross Breeding spell)
Sandworm (From Dune)
Grendel and Mother (although they have no physical description in the poem)
Cerberus/Garm (Giant Dog or Underworld guardian figure)
Leviathan/Behemoth/Ziz (I know they're already in the game, but these are supposed to be end of the world type creatures)

Apologies if I copied anyone!

MaxWilson · #6 June 6th, 2008, 08:47 PM

Let's rename the Ziz spell "False Ziz" and then make a *real* Titan-sized immortal Ziz with A4 and Str 25.

Edit: oh yeah! Don't forget three-bodied Geryon. Basically a giant with a whole bunch of slots.

-Max

Taqwus · #7 June 6th, 2008, 08:58 PM

Hard to beat a Hecatonchire's 100 hand slots.

llamabeast · #8 June 6th, 2008, 09:01 PM

Responses to jim's suggestions:

Balrog - E/F - demon, flying, fear, heat aura

I guess demons are pretty well covered already by blood though. Not sure we should be adding more demons unless there's a specific reason to.

Ettin - E - Ambi, extra head slot
Cockatrice - E/F - Petrify, flying

These are cool, but already covered by cross breeding. Maybe we could make different versions of them.

Treant - N - mobile treelord, summon ally: vine ogre

I'm quite keen on this one. Graphics will be tricky, but doable.

Sasquatch - A/N - trample, cold aura

Is that just a yeti?

Olm - W/E - mind blast, enslave mind

Nice.

Gorgon - E/N - (really, just like the pretender)

Maybe best kept as a pretender? Just thinking it is quite unique and powerful.

Shishi - A - flying, standard, lightning

What's one of these then? I can only find references to stone lions.

Much of sector24's mythology is beyond me (although this is exactly the kind of thing which will make for a good mod).

Cerberus sounds interesting. Would he be unique? Hard to imagine a dog big enough to be useful, even if he does have three heads.

I like the sound of a Ziz, even though I'm not clear what they are. False-Zizing the Ziz and Zizzing a new Ziz sounds ideal.

Like sector24 I personally am not so keen on adding non-mythological creatures like the beholder or sandworm, being as this is an addition to the (mythological) base game rather than a mod nation. As part of a mod nation those things are obviously pretty cool. Of course this is just a matter of personal taste.

sector24 · #9 June 6th, 2008, 09:59 PM

Ziz is "the" giant bird at the end of the world in Christian mythology, to go along with Behemoth on land and Leviathan in the Mediterranean. God will slay these creatures so that the righteous will have food and clothing and tents, and possibly giant foam (leather) #1 fingers.

Actually, I believe Ziz comes from the Gnostic tradition and therefore it isn't in the Bible. But the more obscure the creature, the cooler it is to have in the game.

Cerberus allows the shades of mortals to enter Hades, but never to leave. I would imagine him as creature with 3 bite attacks that do 3x damage to undead, probably with 2 misc slots. Is there such a thing as undead-awe? That would be a great ability.