OT: Malazan Book of the Fallen

MaxWilson · #1 June 14th, 2008, 01:14 AM

Hmmm. What does it mean to die "for real" in the Malazan universe? To put it another way, if I believe in an afterlife, does that mean that I can't find joy and sorrow when a man gives his life for his friends?

I think the Wickans are emphatically NOT exceptional in the Malazan universe. Hood is exceptional in that he actually collects dead souls and does something with them, which I think is quite decent of him.

-Max

Stryke11 · #2 June 16th, 2008, 05:56 PM

I guess when I say die "for real" what I mean is being taken out of the tapestry of history, and even if your soul lives on elsewhere, being unable to affect events in the mortal world. By that standard Coltaine is actually one of the least offensive, as while he was "reborn", it was as a child and it will take many years for him to grow and become relevant again.

Compare to: Paran, Silverfox, Tool, The Bridgeburners (in spirit form), the Malazan historian (can't spell his name, etc. who die and yet immediately come back and are able to impact events.

MaxWilson · #3 June 16th, 2008, 06:31 PM

I agree that Coltaine's death was more "real" (less D&D-ish) than the others you name. The fate of a certain Bridgeburner in Reaper's Gale was very... perplexing to me. I don't really understand the metaphysics of death and immortality in the Malazan universe but I hope Erikson is going somewhere interesting with it. Erikson has explicitly said that immortality is one of the ideas that motivated his stories in the first place: what if larger-than-life personalities didn't die but kept turning up again and again in human history? What if Alexander the Great and Napoleon and Hammurabi and Aristotle and Mohammed were all STILL ALIVE? I don't think it's merely a matter of hating to kill off characters.

Note that Duiker is still radically transformed by his experience, crippled even. Silverfox is not the same person she was before, although Nightchill still influences her. Paran is the most direct "resurrection" I can think of aside from [Reaper's Gale spoiler], whose resurrection I don't understand at all yet. And [other RG spoiler] too, actually.

-Max

Edited for spoiler

P.S. Wait a second, Tool? Are you sure you don't mean Toc? If Tool died just because Silverfox released him as First Sword that would just be depressing.

Stryke11 · #4 June 16th, 2008, 09:09 PM

Oh heck, I didn't even consider Toc Younger. That's a good example!

When I say Tool I mean how he basically got hammered by the Seguleh but then was "resurrected" as a tribesman.

MaxWilson · #5 June 16th, 2008, 10:25 PM

That was just a classic "saved-in-the-nick-of-time-by-your-sister" event, though. Hardly a resurrection.

I do not think we have seen the last of Toc. K'rul predicted two future meetings with Kilava, one of hardly any consequence (which we saw in RG), and one more... momentous. It's possible of course that K'rul read the future wrongly. (Either way, I don't think he'll reappear before the end of MBotF.)

-Max

Sleet · #6 June 17th, 2008, 12:15 PM

Great series, on the House of Chains book right now. I like the changing/emerging character of Karsa Orlong.

This is a series where I need to take a break after each to.. soak in the gory and glorious details.

DonCorazon · #7 June 17th, 2008, 12:22 PM

I think this is perhaps the best example of a series that begs to be re-read as you need to know the story before you can really understand everything you are reading. I am still working my way through it (on Reaper's Gale) and it is definitely starting to get interesting, but I look forward to the second run through.