The (not really) Official Endgame Summon Thread!

[MaxWilson]

I see one potential problem, which is that hordes of freespawn in the endgame tend to slow down turn processing a lot. So say the LA Ermor and R'lyeh players anyway, I've no firsthand knowledge.

I don't have a huge problem with immortal freespawn. Immortality is nice thematically, but is 1.) vulnerable to dominion push, and 2.) requires mobility to really take advantage of. If you kill a freespawn 6 provinces away from the capital, it probably stays hors de combat for 6 turns or so (depending on terrain). It would be not at all impossible to fight them, so as long as it's thematic I think it's fine.

-Max

[Wrana]

About fungi creatures I would add to some of them a 'Moss Body' as #onebattlespell. Though immortality would probably be too much - or at least should be restricted to just one of their kinds (I personally would prefer to make them regenerating). Another probability is Dominion summon, of course.

[Wrana]

By the way, mykorhyza (i.e., real body of fungi) is actually quite vulnerable and regrows only slowly. That's why when you gather eatible fungi you should cut them near surface, not pull them off. Just for those who didn't know previously...
(So ingame something similar should probably look as something low-hp, high MR & mindless which just domsummons chaff (or not only chaff)).

[HoneyBadger]

One of the characteristics of my own campaign setting-which is decidedly weird-is that their are roughly 15000 separate, unique fungus/crystal (traits of both) constructs that each represent a separate letter (rune, if you will) of the "magical alphabet", and that these reproduce (the reproductions are not immortal/indestructable, although the original "parent" is) over time, causing fluctuations in the presence, influence, character, and usability of the magic. These are then tended over by the setting's equivalent to faeries.

So what I'm going with this is, maybe instead of (yet another) SC, perhaps instead your fungi might produce units over time that autocast each a different specific spell. It would add something different to the nation from any other, it's weird enough thematically for a fungus nation [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/icon04.gif[/img] [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/icon04.gif[/img] [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/icon04.gif[/img] and if you set it up right, would make the nation powerful enough to compete with any of the others, due to their masses of free casters. Balance could be achieved by, firstly, making the more important "links" in the "chain" of producers very vulnerable to destruction, and by making the "chain" long enough that the really good spells-as well as any SCs and units that are very useful for other things than casting spells, don't show up until much later in the game.

[Wrana]

Yes, I agree about this, though 15000 letters "alphabet" seems too much - Chinese has fewer! It would, of course, explain magic being rare... By the way, could I look it up somewhere?
Important links vulnerable to destruction seems quite right for me, but what I'm not sure about is a possibility of making a random/semirandom NEW units production under the existing engine. IIRC mod commands allow either 'summon allies' which produces 1 type of such, or domsummon which can produce a few types with probability depending on Dominion.. This can probably include various types, but not with equal probability of each, so a variety of high-end types isn't achievable. They would also become rather common in high Dominion - and if they are free, then their production becomes completely automatic after the start, without any meaningful choice on a part of player...

[JimMorrison]

What you would have to do, is make certain powerful versions possible only under very high Dominion, 9-10 maybe.

When these appear, and there are several types, they can Call Allies, each with different resulting units produced. The "choice" to the player comes in the form of deciding which to send off to war today to defend and expand the nation, and which to keep at home, generating more troops.

Not a perfect fix by any means, but it allows you to tailor your army a little more the way you want it. Of course, any system that uses Call Allies is going to necessarily be somewhat less responsive than a training/purchase system. You're getting what you get every turn, and that's it. Though, you'd get the other freespawns as well.

The chance to get the good ones could only take place in castles, and probably castles with temples. So in the early game, it wouldn't be this overwhelming advantage, it would take some effort to get to a situation where you were really producing powerful troops on a meaningful scale.

[HoneyBadger]

Actually, quite a bit more than 15000-which isn't *that* much, when you consider they govern most of the aspects of Reality itself, in a localized fashion. It's not so much a language as the symbols for the source-code of the Universe.

And no, it's just a prop, nothing really to even look at.

I'd force the player to make meaningful choices in two ways: 1 by selection of Pretender-type. A different Pretender produces different generations down the line. If A: the Pretender can shapechange, then each change would produce a different line, while possibly-or not-allowing the Pretender to go back to original form. If B: no shapechange, or C: if shapechange in conjunction with entirely separate Pretenders, then a very important, informed or uninformed, decision can be made from the start of the game.

Secondly, by making some very expensive National summons, that each produce their own generations, you force the player to spend large amounts of resources to set up their game strategies-taking into account that what they spend now, they'll only see a return on, later in the game. That way, you open up various units to everyone playing the Nation, but force a choice of long term strategy.

Thirdly, as JimMorrison says-if you set it up in such a way that you're forced to choose between sending your producers off to fight, or leaving them at home to breed, that's another good choice, as is choosing between A: producing more weak units which themselves produce stronger units, or B: *just* producing strong units now-that are either sterile, or that produce weak units, which later on will give you diminished returns.