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  #1  
Old June 15th, 2008, 04:05 PM
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Twan Twan is offline
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Default Re: End Game Summons

Units :

Recruitable powerful units will be used for rush even if they are reasonably expensive (or if they are extremely expensive won't be used, as not cost effective in late game compared to mages).

More, or more cost effective really good troops summons, are an option. But if these troops aren't mindless or with an insane MR their existence would make astral (enslave spells) even more interesting.


Upgrades :

It's very unlikely to see a change of this magnitude added in a patch.

An upgrade system is doable with dynamic modding but would require a lot of work for the host/modder, and players downloading the mod each time an unit progress.
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  #2  
Old June 15th, 2008, 05:54 PM

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Default Re: End Game Summons

How about recruitables with an associated research requirement?
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  #3  
Old June 15th, 2008, 05:55 PM

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Default Re: End Game Summons

There is a medium between not used and not as cost effective as mages.

For example: For ulm War Machines: Chariots with 100 hp that cost 600 gold and 60 resources each.

For Agartha: Terra Cotta Regiment:
Each regiment comes with 45 soldier. Each soldier has 45 hp, prot 20, sacred.

Cost 1200 and 200 resources.

Play with the numbers. Sure mages are cheaper - but mages can fall victim due to lower hp.
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Old June 15th, 2008, 06:37 PM

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Default Re: End Game Summons

Chariots of 600 gold?

In what way would they be different from the size 6 gath chariot that is much cheaper?
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  #5  
Old June 15th, 2008, 07:18 PM
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Default Re: End Game Summons

I think he's just saying it would behave like a chariot, being a gigantic trampling unit. But it would be different from the Gath chariot in that it has 100hp, as he said. Also, I'd imagine it's this hulking metal monstrosity that is far better armored than any other chariot, in fact it's sort of a Blacksteel War Chariot, which could be actually powered by 2 mammoths completely ensconced in the steel body of the Machine.

The Terra Cotta soldiers sound a little excessively powerful, especially as sacreds. But that sort of thing is great. I just really think that the system of forcing it to be managed as a summons is the way to go with it. Even at 1200g and 200 resources, you would want to buy that ASAP. Why? Because you could take 3 indy (or low-mid PD) provinces at a time without a single loss, and if your neighbor had 45 sacreds with 20 prot and 45hp, and you didn't? They would slaughter you to the last man with no question of victory.
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Old June 15th, 2008, 08:04 PM
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Default Re: End Game Summons

I think it could be interesting to have ultra powerful 300+ resource units. You could only recruit 1 per turn per castle (or 0 for some castles), it would increase the value of the production scale (you might be able to pump out 2 a turn with 3 production?), and you might actually consider building fortress outside of swamps.
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  #7  
Old June 16th, 2008, 02:03 AM
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Default Re: End Game Summons

Quote:
JimMorrison said:
I think he's just saying it would behave like a chariot, being a gigantic trampling unit. But it would be different from the Gath chariot in that it has 100hp, as he said. Also, I'd imagine it's this hulking metal monstrosity that is far better armored than any other chariot, in fact it's sort of a Blacksteel War Chariot, which could be actually powered by 2 mammoths completely ensconced in the steel body of the Machine.

You have a vivid imagination. I can see them in my mind now. Kind of like a tank powered by Mammoths. With openings in the armor for the Mammoths to see forward, and arrow slots in the chariot for firing.
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Old June 16th, 2008, 02:46 AM

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Default Re: End Game Summons

SCs aren't particularly unbalanced in terms of power, there are other distinct reasons for them being so dominant late game:

1. No upkeep. The upkeep on a viable late game army is significant, especially on top of paying for researchers. This limits nations to a small number of them at a time, whereas SCs accumulate for free until they are killed.

2. Mobility. Pretty simple. Flight and teleport/cloud trapeze are pretty much SC staples, armies are generally stuck plodding along one province at a time.

3. Non-divisibility. Aside from a couple of really bad afflictions SCs don't suffer from attrition like armies can. They generally either win or die, with an occasional retreat thrown in for flavor. Armies can get picked apart, especially with spells like rain of stones and the like.

4. Lack of logistics/not having to deal with the poop-for-brains AI gem use. Nothing beat watching my mages burn 20 gems in each of two battles in which the opposing "army" of a few leaders was killed or routed by soul slays before they even got to move. Having to supply an army is a pain even when they're not doing stupid stuff like that. SCs are pretty much fire and forget...soul vortex is usually the only buff that occasionally takes a gem for me, and that's not nearly so annoying to deal with.

In a toe-to-toe fight a well-designed army with mage support should have little trouble taking down a few SCs, they're just more expensive to maintain and harder to utilize...I don't think any nerfing really needs to be done to SCs, they're actually pretty fragile to a lot of reasonable counter strategies as it is. Mind hunt/magic duel being the most common.
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Old June 16th, 2008, 02:49 AM

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Default Re: End Game Summons

Quote:
Lingchih said:
Quote:
JimMorrison said:
I think he's just saying it would behave like a chariot, being a gigantic trampling unit. But it would be different from the Gath chariot in that it has 100hp, as he said. Also, I'd imagine it's this hulking metal monstrosity that is far better armored than any other chariot, in fact it's sort of a Blacksteel War Chariot, which could be actually powered by 2 mammoths completely ensconced in the steel body of the Machine.

You have a vivid imagination. I can see them in my mind now. Kind of like a tank powered by Mammoths. With openings in the armor for the Mammoths to see forward, and arrow slots in the chariot for firing.
Thats exactly what I envisioned, Jim. Plus other things, I'm far to lazy to write.
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  #10  
Old June 16th, 2008, 04:16 AM
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Default Re: End Game Summons

Arrow slits! I thought of that, Ulmish Crossbows could be devastating, but Dom doesn't allow ranged combat in the same turn as trampling, so it would be silly. Perhaps a ballista that you could set to fire first if you knew there were large opponents in the enemy army. Also nice would be large spikes around the base of the Machine, but as far as I know there is also no way to add bonus damage to trampling, so I opted for a sleek look. Perhaps the spikes could be worked in like some sort of a damage shield? Or we could say they kept a pot of boiling oil inside the cabin of the thing, and could spit it out of aimable tubes on the sides, so just have it behave like a 10dam Fire Shield maybe?
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