refuting common wisdom on scales everybody knows

[Endoperez]

johan osterman said:
Number of luck events are determnined by homeprovince scales and number of provinces, IIRC. The events are categorised as either bad luck or good luck events, the ratio of which are dependent on your home province luck scale. Once the general nature and number of events are determined the will be randomly assigned to provinces. There they will be randomly generated if the province does not have the requirements for an event the event will be rerolled. For the purposes of what events might occur enemy dominion luck scale in a province will be coniderewd unluck, unluck scales will still be unluck. So in order to get the 3000 gold event you will have the event occur in a province where you have your dominion and a plus 3 luck scale.

edit: source http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...&Number=612131

[Twan]

I should be really unlucky if it's the real mechanic.

[kasnavada]

Think of it like this: Growth gives a static precentage bonus to population, every turn. To test Growth scale, you can run a test with 9 provinces for 30 turns, or a test with 270 provinces for 1 turn. The results will be different.

You don't know what you're talking about. What you just did was a perfect example of a strawman argument : the events you get from luck or misfortune from turn n do not affect turn n+1. Growth from turn n affects turn n + 1, therefore as you justly said, you can't compare growth that way. But you can compare luck effects since they are independant from one turn to the next. Same with order and production (and negative counterpart).

That's the reason why the only difference between testing luck for 30 turns on 9 provinces and testing luck in 270 province is the cap limitation for events... which should be gone.

Your ideas are interesting though, but a better solution would be to group the events :
Example : your followers found some water gem in provinceA, fire gem in provinceB instead of 2 messages. Even more since it doesn't matter where the gems are found.

Same for gold : it could be summed. For the loss of gold, it should also be. I always found strange that losing 200 gold in a province that gives 14 gold result in a loss of 14 gold...

Luck should scale with territory since more territory means more chances for luck to happen.

And, as far as militia events being useless, they've been mostly replaced by national troops events AFAIK... so your wish has been heard.

[Sombre]

kasnavada said:
Luck should scale with territory since more territory means more chances for luck to happen.

And, as far as militia events being useless, they've been mostly replaced by national troops events AFAIK... so your wish has been heard.

Luck does scale with territory, but only until you reach the event cap.

Militia events are still pretty common and in some cases the national troop events are just as bad anyway.

[Chris_Byler]

kasnavada said:
You don't know what you're talking about. What you just did was a perfect example of a strawman argument : the events you get from luck or misfortune from turn n do not affect turn n+1. Growth from turn n affects turn n + 1, therefore as you justly said, you can't compare growth that way. But you can compare luck effects since they are independant from one turn to the next. Same with order and production (and negative counterpart).

That's not true at all. Indy attacks on turn n affect turn n+1 very obviously: you still don't have the province, unless you send an army to retake it. Buildings destroyed by an event remain destroyed until you rebuild them. Population killing events have a persistent effect just like death scale's (only more dramatic). Free buildings, extra mines, and many other luck events have persistent good effects. Unrest events on turn n will affect your tax revenue - if you use autotax, it will automatically cut taxes to reduce the unrest, and if you don't, you will have to manually reduce taxes, patrol, or reduce unrest some other way in order to get your tax revenue back.

[JimMorrison]

Kasnavada, I hope you don't have a career as a scientist.....


Your 9 prov * 30 turns = 270 provinces for 1 turn is fatally flawed. You have been told repeatedly that events cap out. It's hard to say definitively if it's 4 or 5 or even 6 - that's not the point. The point is that even if it's 6, and even if you only reliably got 2 per turn with 9 provinces, your test would result in 60 events with the 9 province test, and 6 events in the 270 province test. So to clarify, you are theoretically (though not in any way -accurately-) extrapolating the effects of Order, you are getting 10x the Luck effect on the empire that is 1/30 the size.


Just.. stop.. arguing.. please. <3

[Omnirizon]

wow...

you guys are worse than social scientists and even historians; and historians love to debate, and they get mean man.

[MaxWilson]

@Jim,

On the other hand, somebody probably SHOULD run the luck test on more than 9 provinces, just so we get some quantitative idea of what we're dealing with. I'll try to get to it this week. If I do so, Kasnavada will be satisfied and everyone will benefit.

-Max

[Gandalf Parker]

Ive found it fairly playable to take negative luck with nations who have plus-luck gods and units available, and low domain.

Ive also found it playable to take low production with nations where Im concentrating on non-armored units (such as Pangaea). And low growth or high temperature for nations with lots of nature magic.

Usually not the most extreme settings +3/-3. Those I rarely use. But then again thats probably what +3/-3 should be.

[Omnirizon]

Gandalf Parker said:
Ive found it fairly playable to take negative luck with nations who have plus-luck gods and units available, and low domain.

Ive also found it playable to take low production with nations where Im concentrating on non-armored units (such as Pangaea). And low growth or high temperature for nations with lots of nature magic.

Usually not the most extreme settings +3/-3. Those I rarely use. But then again thats probably what +3/-3 should be.

interesting. why is nature magic a contingent for extreme temps? for the spell relief? do the "resist" spells (cold and fire) reduce or eliminate the encumbrance effect of temp scales?