OT-Black Company

[Leif_-]

HoneyBadger said:
Leif, the Mahabharata is a trilogy consisting of approximately 1.8 million words. I don't think they had personal computers and word-processors 2400 years ago.

Yes, yes, there were long books and stories long before word processors entered stage right, but it was with the the arrival of the word processors that books of 300+ pages became the norm.

[Endoperez]

I think endings are one of the most important parts of any story. A good beginning can get you started, but what you'll end up remembering will probably be the ending. There are exceptions, though:

"Mrs. Whitaker found the Holy Grail; it was under a fur coat."
So starts Chivalry, a short story by Neil Gaiman

Also, the forewords of the Dragonlance novel Soulforge, and spesifically the quote about iron-making. It's a powerful start, even though the story isn't too special by itself.

[Aezeal]

a few points to start
1. I don't know any black company books (I don't think even the biggest stores here in Holland have them, but the more I encounter the name I'm thinking of ordering them)

2. I FULLY agree Martin writes great books and I think it is better than Tolkien in quite some ways.

3. dragon of .... etc.. is IMHO not a very good series and I don't think there is good character development at all.

4. I like Jordans books, even the late/last ones

Then I want to bring some autor's into the light (I guess most of you 'read them already but if you haven't these are books you must read.. even if you don't think they are as great as I think they are I'm sure you'll find them at least good and worth the reading time

Having said that I think it's strange that Steven Erikson hasn't been mentioned I think his Malazan books of the Fallen are one of the greatest series there are (for me this is the best series together with Martin)

I also like Feists (Magician and his serpentwar saga)

another series I like very much so far (only seen first book of this sereis (I think the rest isn't written yet): the name of the wind by Patrick Rothfuss

An oldie (don't know exactly how it really fits in timeline with other book but one of his books was amongst the first I bougth) I like too is Tad Williams (Dragonthrone series (real name to long) and his war of the Flowers book

Last but not least I'd like to mention Scott lynch's books about locke lamora (The lies of locke lamora and red seas under red skies) about a conman in a fantasy setting it's different and it's good

also: Drizzt books (RA Salvatore) and discworld novels are always fun between more "serious" series, and not bad at all

[Ballbarian]

I love the Drizzt books (RA Salvatore). My daughters have recently started reading my collection and appear to be hooked as well.

[Xietor]

Feist is very very good. i think the only reason he is not mentioned is he is so well known.

I am surprised KO does not have a hero named Pug or Calais.

[HoneyBadger]

Feist? as in Raymond E Feist? Unknown? On which planet? Surely not Earth. He might not have sold *quite* as many books as Jordan or Martin, but it would be a close race.

If you look at some of the slightly older incarnations of this particular thread...and I can't help but grin at mentioning it...such as the OT Malazan Book of the Fallen, you'll find we've had some quite lively discussion about Feist, Jordan, Martin, Erikson, Williams, etc.

Will some kind administrator please sticky this thread already? It's head keeps getting chopped off and growing back with a new name, Hydra-style.

I loved the Icewind Dale books growing up, and found them much more to my taste than the Dragonlance ones. I very strongly recommend David Drake's King of the Isles series to any R.A.Salvatore fans out there.

[Edi]

We're not stickying threads like this because the top of the forum would get unacceptably cluttered. The current stickies are enough. If it wewre down to the moderators, there'd be three less than now, but we have orders with sound reasoning that prevents it from happening.

[Wrana]

Well, as I suspected:

Aezeal:
Martin writes great books and I think it is better than Tolkien in quite some ways.

While I'm not great fan of Tolkien myself, I think that if you say that Martin is even close, you just demonstrate a lack of understanding the genre and/or lack of reading much good books. I surely don't hold it against you, but...

dragon of .... etc.. is IMHO not a very good series and I don't think there is good character development at all.

Well, you probably didn't read all that much of it as character development begins even in first trilogy.. Though it's true that much of it wasn't by authors' merit but rather by players who played that module out (one of the best published adventures' series, by the way).

I like Jordans books, even the late/last ones

Which also speaks a lot.

Steven Erikson hasn't been mentioned I think his Malazan books of the Fallen

Why I personally didn't read it, it WAS mentioned her (first page iirc).

Feists (Magician and his serpentwar saga)

Just boring. And this by the man who had read much of T$R fantasy in his time. Though usually liked by girls... I have heard that there are some good monsters in there, but I couldn't make myself to dig through his bland language for them...

the name of the wind by Patrick Rothfuss

Didn't read it. And probably won't since it's recommended by a man who thinks Jordan great.

Tad Williams (Dragonthrone series (real name to long) and his war of the Flowers book

Read it some years ago. iirc, not bad, but not particularly impressive either. Of course, there was the time I could read EVERYTHING...

Scott lynch's books about locke lamora ... it's different and it's good

Different from what, for Cthulhu's sake?!! "Conman in fantasy setting" is one of the oldest staples of genre! It's even present in one of R.E. Howard's short stories, not to mention Leiber with his Fafhrd & Grey Mouser!
And Lynch is particularly bad at it also. The only con in the first book which was good thought out is the one played by the Grey King on the main protagonist - and it worked mainly because the said protagonist didn't act as conman (or any criminal) should in the situation (not mentioning the magical help antagonist had). Read O'Henry, for Cthulhu's sake!
By the way, among Russian RPGers such fantasy is characterized by "dice rolling is heard" term. It's seen quite clearly that it was adventure module played out by not particularly good players under a novice DM. Feist is similar BTW, but he at least got his homework as DM done - it's mainly with writing all this down that he has a problem. Also, I don't see how anyone can call Lynch "different" after reading Feist. They are practically twins except Feist is older and was on the market much earlier...

Drizzt books (RA Salvatore)

Well, young girls loved them, that's for sure. After some RPG experience they either gained much irony considering these or just stopped to read them...

Xietor:
I am surprised KO does not have a hero named Pug or Calais.

May it be because KO have read more quality fantasy?

HoneyBadger:
I very strongly recommend David Drake's King of the Isles series to any R.A.Salvatore fans out there.

Being not a fan of Salvatore (or Greenwood, for that matter!) at all, I think I'll pass. Or is it somewhat better than Drake's usual?
Among T$R authors I would also consider Knaak already mentioned here and - just possibly - Gary Gygax himself. He writes not especially good, I must say beforehand, but he's a font of most AD&D initial ideas (as in: beholders, dark elves, and dungeon crawling adventures in general). The girl who'd written Curse of Asure Bonds isn't bad, but her name slips me and it's not very good by itself. Just not bland and not foolish, which is more than can be said about most "dice rolling" fantasy. It's also probably out of print by now.

[HoneyBadger]

Well, the unfortunate truth is, Wrana, that I've read and enjoyed a lot of fiction that just wasn't classic. Stuff that never was, never will be, "the highest quality fantasy", but I still managed to get entertainment and thought out of it. I can give you a very accurate list of the finest fantasy writers in the past 100 years, but I'm sad to say that not every one of them, at every given instance, is enormously readable. They're profound, deep, compelling, etc. but sometimes, yes, one just wants to escape, and not think all that terribly hard, while being taken on a tour of a world unlike our own.

At given points in time, I've enjoyed Martin, I've enjoyed Feist, I've even enjoyed Jordan. They aren't they best thing that ever came down the pike, but on a given day they occupied my brain in ways beneficial.

And even if people are reading crappy fantasy, they're still reading, and it's still fantasy, and that's a good thing in my book. And King of the Isles is 100% free from the Baen free library, so you're welcome to check it out and see for yourself.

[Edi]

After the first book of Serpentwar, Feist's writing started to get seriously stale. I loved the original Riftwar saga and the Empire trilogy he cowrote with Janny Wurts (who is one of my favorite authors, though she can be pretty wordy sometimes).

J.V. Jones also writes good fantasy, but the Book of Words trilogy can take some getting used. Barbed Coil is a first rate standalone book, though.

I also happen to like Michael Scott Rohan's Winter of the World trilogy. It's a rather original take on several elements of Finnish and Celtic mythology.