Fear mechanics

[JimMorrison]

1. "Rout is checked by squad ... a squad will take a morale check if: ... The squad is near a monster causing Fear"

I always understood this to mean that even Fear+0 causes morale checks every round, they're just fairly easy to beat at first.


2. I did some Fear testing awhile back too. It seems to have some sort of cumulative effect, which is in fact VERY different from what the manual states - I wonder if KO has the same version of the manual, or replied to the post without looking.

"Units in a monster's Fear area of effect must take a morale check against the monster's Fear, or rout. The basic Fear effect requires a check against 10 ...The Fear strength itself is increased for every full +5 Fear, so a Fear +10 unit would ... force a morale check against 12."

In my tests, it was shown that not only does the Fear effect not just produce its own isolated rolls, but it rapidly deteriorates the Morale of adjacent units. This effect is cumulative over at least 3 rounds of exposure, and is measurably far greater than the Morale deterioration seen without Fear active. For this reason, many people consider Fear + Awe to be invaluable, and my testing confirms that it is incredibly powerful - perhaps too powerful. -- Just a recap, the manual does not state that the Fear does anything other than force a check, but it does reduce Morale as well.


3. My own tests had implied the same, that there is something awry with the Fear radius. It DOES describe it as "additional" squares, which says to me that it works the same as AOE spells do, but does that mean that Fear+0 radiates to only the 8 squares surrounding the monster, and that each point after that only adds 1 square? If so, then at Fear+12 you would finally get a full radius of 2 around your monster, however even with a Fear +20 PoD, I was hard pressed to find units that were not adjacent, that had measurably lowered Morale scores.


4. I've noticed this sort of behavior as well, it does seem there are reasons why lower damage units can successfully damage a very high prot unit. I can't explain why, the chances of scoring a decent hit have always seemed greater than the probability implied by a comparison of damage+str vs protection values.

[MaxWilson]

JimMorrison said:
This effect is cumulative over at least 3 rounds of exposure, and is measurably far greater than the Morale deterioration seen without Fear active.

In fact, Fear is the ONLY thing which causes deterioration of Morale scores. Damage to a unit affects the bonus to
the Morale check for unit "intactness", not Morale itself.

By the way, Fear +0 has AoE 5 IIRC because it's actually Fear +5. (E.g. three Fear +0 items give you Fear +10.)

-Max

[Endoperez]

Fear starts from Fear -5. That's from DomII, where Fear was different.

I'm not sure how it works, but Fear +0 having AoE 5 is certainly one quite probable option.


The protection/damage thing is also quite interesting.

[Kristoffer O]

> In my tests, it was shown that not only does the Fear effect not just produce its own isolated rolls, but it rapidly deteriorates the Morale of adjacent units. This effect is cumulative over at least 3 rounds of exposure, and is measurably far greater than the Morale deterioration seen without Fear active. For this reason, many people consider Fear + Awe to be invaluable, and my testing confirms that it is incredibly powerful - perhaps too powerful. -- Just a recap, the manual does not state that the Fear does anything other than force a check, but it does reduce Morale as well.

As I said, an omission.

> My own tests had implied the same, that there is something awry with the Fear radius. It DOES describe it as "additional" squares, which says to me that it works the same as AOE spells do, but does that mean that Fear+0 radiates to only the 8 squares surrounding the monster, and that each point after that only adds 1 square? If so, then at Fear+12 you would finally get a full radius of 2 around your monster, however even with a Fear +20 PoD, I was hard pressed to find units that were not adjacent, that had measurably lowered Morale scores.

It is 12 random squares close to the fear inspiring one, not necessarily the squares surrounding him.

It might distribute lik this (X=targeted square, M=monster)

OXOOO
XXXXO
XXMXX
OOXOO
OOXOO

I think it targets a square, and if that one is already targeted it tries to target a random neigbopring square of the first attempted square

[Zeldor]

JimMorrison:

What do you mean by strength? Isn't it AoE of Fear increased every 5 levels of Fear and every point of fear making it harder to resist?

[Kristoffer O]

> Fear value is aoe, not power - With fear 14 my monster should have had a fear radius of 20 (6+14) but the only units with reduced morale were directly adjacent.

This might be due to the fact that units regain morale every turn. Thus units not adjacent might have their morale restored to their normal value before it is comes into effect. Units closer to the fear source get their morlae lowered enough that they never have time to regain it, making it appear as if they were the only ones affected.

[Edi]

It's the other way around. AOE is increased for every point and resistance penalized for every 5 points. Otherwise it would be insanely powerful.

[Zeldor]

Empowering or getting D booster increases fear?

[JimMorrison]

Zeldor said:
JimMorrison:

What do you mean by strength? Isn't it AoE of Fear increased every 5 levels of Fear and every point of fear making it harder to resist?

This notion of resisting is complicated.

As far as I can tell, Fear reduces morale, consistently, and constantly. The implication of what I've seen, is that the effect of having morale reduced, is irresistible.

If when people are talking about resisting, they are referring to making successful morale checks, then this is a bit misleading as well. Since next turn the morale continues to deteriorate, and morale checks are automatic every turn, it starts to seem more that the unit is just "withstanding" the Fear. The actual Fear effect still occurs, morale continues to deteriorate.


And KO, this seems like more than an omission. The problem is that all that we're observing only corroborates what we can observe, and not what is in the manual at all. Also, it might be worthwhile to take a look and see what is actually happening - if the Fear effect reduces morale AND raises the opposing roll, then it is effectually twice as strong as implied. That is, Fear +5 reduces morale by an additional point, and raises the opposing roll by 1 as well, giving an effective balance of a 2 point shift. Also, even Fear +0 will reduce morale by more than 1 point. You can watch it go down each round, though perhaps not as swiftly as with a stronger Fear, but stronger Fear drops morale by more than 2 points etc as well. It looked like the cap might be 5 or 6, but that is a huge amount, it basically means that some less disciplined units can practically be auto-routed by a D10 PoD, even before you start adding a Horror Helm or whatever.

[Xietor]

As far as units getting lucky blows, i had it benefit me twice in the 1st big game where my MA Ctis province defense killed a Bogus thug from Lanka, and later in the game a gor tartarian of Velusion.

So sometimes you just get very very lucky with the dice and your militia kill stuff they should not kill.