"MoD+Retreat" defeated w/o killing caster

Foodstamp · #1 July 18th, 2008, 12:15 AM

I call B.S. It was very rudely expressed to me by several posters that this combination is unbeatable in any situation and that people like me were cheaters for even suggesting that someone find a way to defeat the tactic.

So there is no chance that you found a way to beat this tactic. And even if you did, a strategy that cannot be defeated by one fully con4 equipped SC should never be allowed in this game.

Take your lies, deceit and h4xors and please find a community that will tolerate your shenanigans.

/sarcasm off

I am really glad someone made an effort to figure out / explain counters to this spell. Tears never amount to progress!

Endoperez · #2 July 18th, 2008, 01:14 AM

I fully agree with Foodstamp.

K · #3 July 18th, 2008, 01:48 AM

Here is another saved game. It involves a small Abysian army with a few mages(one casting Fire Storm) and a few guys with Rod's of the Phoenix beating a defending MoD + Storm + Wrathful Skys + Grip of Winter + Quagmire. The Abysian army takes a few losses, and I had to make the Seraph Pretender immune to fire because I was afraid he's get killed on turn one of the combat. It's in a Cold 3 province.

Edi · #4 July 18th, 2008, 04:54 AM

The MoD bug description has been amended to reflect the discussions in this and the BF Enchantments & retreat thread.

Tifone · #5 July 18th, 2008, 05:25 AM

Good. At least I think I will finally understand soon if it deserves to be a fair tactic in MP or not. People seem very doubtful about all in these strange days... ^_^

llamabeast · #6 July 18th, 2008, 05:30 AM

I have to admit I'm sad that this has been toned down from a red to a purple bug. Regardless of whether it's counterable it's still a horrible bug to be on the receiving end of.

Any smart guy who plans to (ab)use MoD will only use it for the first time against a big enemy army. Few big armies are equipped to cope with it, so it's probably an insta-kill on that army at least.

I don't want to have to script all my armies for all time to cope with an MoD exploit. It's certainly at least non-trivial to counter. So as a bug it perturbs the game arguably far more than any other single bug,

Edi · #7 July 18th, 2008, 05:36 AM

I can make it red again, but we shall see. JK is on vacation, but I have asked him to look at the MoD issue and I expect he will sometime when he returns and I'll hear back from in due time.

In fact, I think it might still be better to put it in red because of the abusability due to the general BF enchantment & retreat issue. Domes are still in red, after all.

K · #8 July 18th, 2008, 07:24 AM

Quote:

llamabeast said:
Any smart guy who plans to (ab)use MoD will only use it for the first time against a big enemy army. Few big armies are equipped to cope with it, so it's probably an insta-kill on that army at least.

I view that as a newbies' conception of a "big army", rather than an experienced player's conception of a "powerful army." I think that I've shown that an army prepared to deal with SCs and thugs should beat MoD + BE, so I'm not sure if it's an important issue.

I mean, a powerful army is composed of diverse elements using several different "winning" strategies. The late game is about mastery of magic, and not about mere strength of arms.

Considering that I believe that this is the one of the PC games I think has "1-2 years" time to achieve mastery (or at least competence), I reserve my judgment to whether adding this complexity to the game is "fair".

K · #9 July 18th, 2008, 07:39 AM

Quote:

llamabeast said:
I have to admit I'm sad that this has been toned down from a red to a purple bug. Regardless of whether it's counterable it's still a horrible bug to be on the receiving end of.

The funny thing is that the same tactics that are effective against SCs and thugs are effective against MoD + BE.

Sure, every army doesn't need to be able to deal with these tactics, but isn't that the key decision to make? (Either make a reinforcing army to join a diverse army or make a stand-alone army)?

Aezeal · #10 July 18th, 2008, 06:32 AM

I Disagree with Foodstamp and Endo since it's been known for an enternity you can beat the spell but the fact remains that once the caster leaves the spell should end, it's an admitted bug by the makers too I think and if it's exploited it's enough reason to kick pplz in the nuts for it.