New Problem PBEM Camapaign "Ghost Crews"I

[Mobhack]

I will also need a "history" from each player of what exactly they did with thier cores in between battles.

As well as "did you leave units destroyed/damaged" :

- did you delete any core formations (if so - were any with damaged vehicles with crew out?)
- did you buy new core formations?
- did you upgrade any core troops (change type etc)?

It's likely a subtle little thing, as player 2 previously was not allowed to be core, and some small administrative routine is likely not tracking the P2 change for destroyed units & their crews for P2. My initial guess, anyway.

Now to find the offender, since the PBEM campaign code is pretty much 100% there, bar this one (which the playtesters did not catch unfortunately).

Andy

[Wdll]

I left some unfinished, not enough points for repairs.

I did not delete any core formations.
I did not buy new core formations.
I did not upgrade any core troops.

Now that I can understand the problem it won't be a problem for me, although it is annoying to have to check every single unit if it has damage and how much before I deploy it since I can't possibly remember which one or more units I did not had the points to repair. Not game breaking though.

BTW, the deployed but already destroyed units, that get destroyed again, do they count for points in the current battle?

[PanzerBob]

Sorry a little late getting back to you.

I'm player one.

This was between battles 1 and 2

I didn't leave any units unrepaired IIRC.

I deleted some core formations (yes there were bailed crews)
I replaced them (example replaced Helos with Recce Units)
I really did not upgrade anything replaced it was downgraded if anything due to cost.

Unfortunately Andy I have not been saving all the turns, maybe Wdll has.

I'll make sure I save the lead up turns etc as we move from battles 2 to 3.

Thanks for your efforts thus far.

Bob out.

[Mobhack]

Its OK - I managed to recreate part of the problem in a test game or 2.

Seems only to happen to player 2 crews - the problem being that when the crews are deleted on recombining, the core flag was not reset, but the active flag was set to null. Another routine was checking the core flag and the active flag, and letting them through on either being true - should have been a test on both flags true. So some surplus "crews" were appearing - depending on the data they happened to have when incorrectly deleted, they might show up on either side. Anyway - the problem seems fixed in the development EXE now (still testing).

Andy

[Mobhack]

As mentioned in another post - the damaged vehicles will no longer be deployable whatsoever, in the forthcoming EXE.

For now - don't use the "deploy all" or "auto deploy" on a human campaign core. Nor should you pick things directly off the formation list when deploying your forces.

If you have damaged units carried over in your core - the damage points on the cripples are credited to your opponent at end game as VP, as is normal. Thus being forced to "carry" damaged core helps your opponent.

Moral - protect your core troops! .

If damaged already, and they become destroyed (easier done with badly damaged cripples) then even more damage (VP) will be credited to your opponent. Plus they are in danger of having the crew destroyed thus losing some experience in those units.

Leave any such on the grey hexes at the rear of your deployment zone is best, should you have made the mistake of deploying them. They will then be removed from the map, like any other retreater/router.

As said - that problem is fixed in the new EXE.

Cheers
Andy

[Wdll]

Something else, not directly related perhaps, but if I eject a crew from a vehicle and then that vehicle gets destroyed, will the opponent get VPs for this? (for example gets destroyed by artillery).

[Mobhack]

If you bail from a vehicle - the opponent will always get the damage points done to it as VP, which could be 1 point for a de-tracking.

But if the wandering crew are suddenly made dead, the vehicle is now considered fully destroyed for any VP purposes at game end. And for campaign core crew, they are going to be replaced with a less experienced newbie next battle.

If the crew are wandering about away from the damaged AFV, and an enemy occupies the same hex as the damaged unit, it is destroyed. Crew is then irrelevant (nil points), so if killed, it is only of consequence as regards campaign progress (it will become a newbie) - or for the killing unit as a kill point (aids experience gain), if it is itself core. Or, for any suppression to neighbours that its destruction adds. Or, if it is the formation leader, of course.

If you are thoroughly defeated (not a draw), any vehicles (and other crewed items like arty) with surviving crews away, even if alive - at end of game are considered dead for VP assignment, and are marked as destroyed. Even if only 1 point as a track hit. This is not the case for the winner, as he is considered to control the battlefield and so easier repair of wrecks on it. Recombining a damaged AFV or gun may be a good idea if you can, if you are likely to be marginally or totally defeated - or they will be considered lost to the enemy as he will have battlefield control. Always providing that those units are in somewhere reasonably safe to do so of course!.

Basically - the crew is the damaged AFV/gun, and so using bailed M1 (say) crew once rallied for "cheap expendable" scouts - is a false economy .



Cheers
Andy

[Wdll]

Great, thanks

[PanzerBob]

Glad you were able to track the problem and put in the fix for the next release. For now it's not a big problem, just something we thought you should be aware of.

Thanks again, Bob