VOTD-Still like it

[Tifone]

Take note I don't have anithing against you, Kuritza. Even I, as I said, think that the spell needs a little fixing, mostly for the conceptual thing of the multiplied souls ^^
I'm just saying, it seems to me that you are just attacking how the spell works because some1 made a good use of it against your strategy things like that happen, let the past go

[Kuritza]

Tifone said:
You are becoming quite belligerant, mmh? Where did you find those words in my post? XD

Tifone said:IMHO? Because this is a game of tactics and counters, sometimes some tactic is somewhat unbalanced, sometimes the counter, if your enemies does a good use of those, you are outplayed, period.

To do a good use of VotD, one should simply cast it. You have no options to defend, you just wait till your SC fails his roll. Maybe you get lucky and resist 49 times as Konming suggested, but most likely, you wont. Thus, you will be outplayed - according to you. Hence my words.

And, Konming, 150 astral pearls and 50 mage turns is theorycraft. In reality, things happen differently. In my case it was God with MR 26 (you forgot to count magic scale +1 that most players take) who was killed by second casting of VotD. Ermor player later claimed it was the first spell that killed my God, but I think he's wrong. So its 6 pearls and two mage turns.

So yes, I do object when people say that fire-and-forget spell is 'just fine'. Mindless units that dont die because they didnt have a commander in the first place is a bad thing.

[konming]

Then the bug is with DRN generator. With that kind of luck, your pretender can do nothing in battlefield either, two casts of paralyze and your pretender is gone. Cost: 0 astral pearls.

[konming]

At that rate, you can forget about SCs all together, since thau5 they get soul slay. Oh the horror, two casts kill one SC. I wonder why R'lyeh does not simply roll over any opponents, you know, with the uncounterable, invicinble soul slay.

[Kuritza]

konming said:
At that rate, you can forget about SCs all together, since thau5 they get soul slay. Oh the horror, two casts kill one SC. I wonder why R'lyeh does not simply roll over any opponents, you know, with the uncounterable, invicinble soul slay.

Sigh.... should I really explain such simple things? Or rather, point at them since they are well known...
Soul slay is counterable, your opponent can put decoy commanders and astral mage(s). Its absolutely perfect - it requires considerable research and there are countermeasures against it.

konming said:With that kind of luck, your pretender can do nothing in battlefield either, two casts of paralyze and your pretender is gone. Cost: 0 astral pearls.

For that, his astral mages should be in the same province with my pretender, dont they? I avoided Ermorian mages, intercepting his smaller groups with my God instead.

[konming]

Kuritza said:

Sigh.... should I really explain such simple things? Or rather, point at them since they are well known...
Soul slay is counterable, your opponent can put decoy commanders and astral mage(s). Its absolutely perfect - it requires considerable research and there are countermeasures against it.

For that, his astral mages should be in the same province with my pretender, dont they? I avoided Ermorian mages, intercepting his smaller groups with my God instead.

That defeats the whole "kill all the chaff" purpose, doesn't it? His big group of chaff are most likely accompanied by astral mages. Beside, there is one small horrible spell called teleport. With your luck(or buggy DRN), two mages can teleport in and cast soul slay, and you have one dead pretender. I frankly do not know how astral mages or decoy commanders help with soul slay, did you confuse soul slay with mind hunt? Even worse, teleport is thau3. Soul slay is thau5. Not exactly tons of research...

[Kuritza]

Ah, indeed. Soul slay, not mind hunt.

Now, what you propose now are normal routines, and they all have their countermeasures.

For Soul Slay / paralyze during a big battle you can present bigger targets on the battlefield, mammoths, for example. Mages like targeting them. Placing flying SC in the rearmost position helps, too. By the time he finishes buffing himself, mages are often cold from spamming spells.

For teleport-soul slay combo, I often script my cloud trapezing/teleporting SC for 'retreat' or 'returning' and hire some PD in that province. Thats two astral mages who will soul slay some free PD soldiers and die, unless they are golems.

Big groups of chaff arent necessarily accompanied by astral mages, dont you think? Smaller groups with double-blessed shadow vestals too, surprisingly. And if there is a mage or two after all, there are spells like seeking arrow (or is it guided arrow?).
See? Measures and countermeasures. And I this is what I love this game for: one player can launch plan A, then second player can respond with plan B, etc. But with bugged VotD there's simply no plan B, and thats exactly what I find so upsetting.
Hope my position is easier to understand now.

Tifone said:
This is really starting to remind me the "unbearably dooming useless" Monkey PD thread!!!!!! XD

Hello mr. Troll.

...
Sigh. Cicero once stated that one shouldnt present too much arguments, because it convinces listeners that speaker is uncertain himself. Alas, he forgot to mention what to do when listeners dont listen to your arguments in the first place.
At least I know what happens then. Talkers start mocking original poster without even bothering to prove him wrong. Actually, without reading his posts at all. Whole tread becomes a laughing stock, and soon the whole issue becomes a tabu, just like Bandar Log are now impossible to discuss because there's alwasy some smart face to say 'OMG ITS ALL CUZ OF MONKEY PD!!!!'

Peace. Enjoy your god-mode VotD for all I care.

[JimMorrison]

Honestly? No, you did not get "outplayed", as you say, you won the war. However, you did get taken off guard. I can list a bunch of things that can cause you a ton of grief in this game if you are not totally prepared for them already.

Should VoTD be moved a little deeper, say level 6 in research? Maybe, maybe not. I'm sure you may have noticed, S+D combo is not exactly common in the game. The spell is cleverly tuned to only be somewhat economical to a very select group of nations. For everyone else, it requires their pretender to cast, or empowerment. Was it his pretender? So, you're mad that his pretender cast a spell that killed your pretender?

The more rabidly you defend your position, the more you make me feel that my original satire of your first post, needn't have been qualified as a joke, and just been left as the honest and biting satire that it is.

Did I mean it lightheartedly though? Yes, I did indeed. And you took the little jab on the chin, and feel into a berserker rage. Is it too late for the icewater?

[Kuritza]

JimMorrison said:
Should VoTD be moved a little deeper, say level 6 in research? Maybe, maybe not. I'm sure you may have noticed, S+D combo is not exactly common in the game. The spell is cleverly tuned to only be somewhat economical to a very select group of nations.

Does it change jack when you play against these nations? Are these nations weak otherwise?

JimMorrison said: For everyone else, it requires their pretender to cast, or empowerment. Was it his pretender? So, you're mad that his pretender cast a spell that killed your pretender?

Once again, I realise that you dont actually read what I write. It was MA Ermor with astral 9/fire 9 bless. Did MA Ermor with astral 9 / fire 9 bless cast VotD with his pretender?
I guess not. Mocking others without even reading what they say is usually called trolling.

JimMorrison said:
The more rabidly you defend your position, the more you make me feel that my original satire of your first post, needn't have been qualified as a joke, and just been left as the honest and biting satire that it is.

Oh, come on. Read your post again - you tried to turn my post into an outraged munchkins ravings, making me look ridiculous.
You know, when I realise I have accidently insulted somebody, I tell him I'm sorry and stop trolling. But your mockery is still there, my answer to it is there as well, so its ok.

[Tifone]

This is really starting to remind me the "unbearably dooming useless" Monkey PD thread!!!!!! XD