LA Atlantis - frozen death from all directions

cleveland · #1 August 1st, 2008, 04:20 PM

Sure. But most Death nations don't have much raiding capability. Similarly, most raiding nations don't have much castle-breaking capability.

I'm presupposing that a "raiding nation" is one which has the ability to hit multiple fronts unexpectedly. Sailing grants that, stealth grants that, flying grants that, teleporting grants that.

I absolutely concede that any nation casting Black Death can also cast Stygian Paths. But slip a Bane Venom Charm & some swim trunks on someone who lands onshore at the same time as your sailors...that only takes Const4 & Ench7 (which you'll be going for to get those Leviathans), totally doable in year 3. Thoughts?

MaxWilson · #2 August 1st, 2008, 04:40 PM

Hmmm, okay, I think I see the distinction you're drawing. Nevertheless, I suspect that Niefelheim, Fomoria, and Ashdod (recruitable thugs w/ Teleport or Cloud Trapeze access) all have good reason to want castle-breakers handy.

I haven't played much with Bane Venom charms. How many corpses do they produce?

-Max

P.S. You're definitely making me want to try some bigger maps (400+ provinces), just so I can try attacking across the globe.

cleveland · #3 August 1st, 2008, 04:44 PM

I'd guesstimate that they kill ~5% of the population per turn. Not bad if it's an enemy capital...

konming · #4 August 4th, 2008, 05:46 AM

How do you deal with LA R'leyh if you want to go into sea at all?

Sure your troops are amphibious, but they also have low MR. Even with S9 bless, 14 MR (maybe 13 due to magic scale) will not last against mind blasters. Anti-magic both take time to research and only your (most likely) imprisoned god can cast it. You do not get quickness, so while you can kill all the chaff, you just do not do it quickly enough, giving plenty of time for mind blasters. Also your denfense is not high, leaving 16 protection (again E9 bless) as your only saving grace. 16 protection is good enough for R'leyh free spawn, but their slave guardians should have no problem killing them. Even all those coral spears can do enough poison damage.

Needly to say, your commander will go mad pretty quickly in R'leyh domain, and you cannot even forge amulet of antimagic yourself.

Without the water part, I just do not see how they match up against most of the stronger land nations. Maybe I am missing something?

Dedas · #5 August 4th, 2008, 09:27 AM

Magic 1 doesn't give -1 in MR.

Baalz · #6 August 4th, 2008, 09:54 AM

Quote:

konming said:
How do you deal with LA R'leyh if you want to go into sea at all?

Sure your troops are amphibious, but they also have low MR. Even with S9 bless, 14 MR (maybe 13 due to magic scale) will not last against mind blasters. Anti-magic both take time to research and only your (most likely) imprisoned god can cast it. You do not get quickness, so while you can kill all the chaff, you just do not do it quickly enough, giving plenty of time for mind blasters. Also your denfense is not high, leaving 16 protection (again E9 bless) as your only saving grace. 16 protection is good enough for R'leyh free spawn, but their slave guardians should have no problem killing them. Even all those coral spears can do enough poison damage.

Needly to say, your commander will go mad pretty quickly in R'leyh domain, and you cannot even forge amulet of antimagic yourself.

Without the water part, I just do not see how they match up against most of the stronger land nations. Maybe I am missing something?

Well, I haven't gone up against a clever player in this matchup yet, but I have tested it out against large masses of mind blasters/chaff and all I can say is go ahead and try it out - 14 MR makes all the difference in the world. Arrsatut's absolutely *destroy* chaff, the front line disintegrates each turn and the small regen goes a long way towards offsetting minor poison damage. In my tests a group of about 50 Arrsatuts killed 200+ groups of chaff blocking 50+ blocks of mind blasters without breaking a sweat - a handful got paralyzed each round but never critical mass. I've yet to see somebody play LA R'yleh without sloth-3, so I'm not too worried about overwhelming amounts of slave guardians (who have an 8 defense and will on average be killed in one hit by Assatuts with a couple experience stars - which they rack up quite fast). Slave guardians also have an 8 moral and are *perfect* targets for the fear spam I mention above if your opponent is fielding any significant numbers of them. Terror/frighten spam + low moral + rapid casualties....I don't see them causing too much trouble.

Jazzepi · #7 August 4th, 2008, 10:14 AM

I don't think your pretender can go insane in R'yleh dominion.

Jazzepi

Agema · #8 August 4th, 2008, 01:03 PM

With 10MR, illithids paralyze with just under 50% effectiveness. At 14MR, they would paralyze with just over 10% effectiveness. (It's also worth bearing in mind it's not just the paralyze, but the 1AN MR damage over time causes enormous damage as well.)

If 50 illithids faced 50 arrsatuts with 10MR, virtually the whole squad would be paralyzed in a few turns. With 14MR, by the time the illithids had paralyzed half the arrsatuts the first paralyzed would be about to recover.

Ming · #9 August 4th, 2008, 04:07 PM

Against R'yleh LAm Atlantis might need to watch out more for shambler thralls than illthids. Illithids cost 2x that of arssartut (and 4x the maintenance) while shambler thralls cost the same 25 gold. Instead of fielding 50 illithids he can field 100 shambers or a combination, which could be quite effective (of course this assumes that R'yleh has a 2:1 advantage in gold income).