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Old August 5th, 2008, 10:15 PM
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JimMorrison JimMorrison is offline
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Default Re: The Bogarus Problem

Yes but you can't afford horses (resource-wise). And they're really hard to keep grouped with infantry, they're much better with the other horse archers who are also ranged, and also mounted with the same speed.

Fanatacism can surely help with the morale a bit, but Voi will still take tremendous losses against just about anything, including LA indies. I mean, I don't even buy that quality of troops for expansion in EA anymore, the attrition is just too costly and cumbersome.

I mean it's great if the PoD is taking a province a turn - if he can consistently find provinces that he can take. However, with Sloth3 and a Voi army, you're going to have a really tough time keeping up with expansion using your troops. It takes a couple of extra turns to rev up a solid force of horse archers, but they can take most indies with very few losses once they hit critical mass, so you are building up the next force, rather than running on a "Voi reinforcement" treadmill.

To look at it another way, if your PoD takes 10 (starts in month 2, and you wait until turn 2 to attack) provinces in the first year, and your army takes 6 provinces, then you aren't much better off than the player whose main army takes 9 provinces in that first year, and then sends another force out 3 turns later which takes 6 as well. Also if he's affording a decent squad of troops every 3 turns, and is positioned well, he might even be beating your expansion rate with the PoD - but we won't go there because you could suppose that your 8 prot, 8 morale Voi didn't die in droves.

My point is just that more often than not, no matter which direction you take it, Bogarus' expansion will tend to be mediocre. But it'll be mediocre with their best troops alone, or with an awake SC and a steaming pile of Voi.
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Old August 6th, 2008, 01:10 AM
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Default Re: The Bogarus Problem

I don't know why people constantly refer to PoD for Bogarus like it's the only SC pretender you can get. Personally I think the cyclops is much better.

Jazzepi
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Old August 6th, 2008, 02:22 AM
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Default Re: The Bogarus Problem

Honestly I think you're right, but I still think, after playing with the Pretender Creator some more, that my playstyle is much better supported by taking a Production scale, and the swap from PoD to Cyclops doesn't really free up any excess points. Your build is pretty decent despite that - I just can't see myself using it, as it still forces you to be heavily reliant on Voi.

Well that and the Cyclops was the first awake SC that I tried to play with, and no matter what I did, he would get horribly afflicted in no time unless I waited for Cons4 and put a Ring of Regen on him, plus whatever else I had the gems for at the time. I don't know how people get away with it. I guess holding him a couple of turns and making a basic shield is necessary? Seems to cut into the stated benefit of an awake SC. People make claims like "1 province per turn for the first year", then we find out they often wait until turn 4 so they can get the gems for a shield and forge it, before going out. O.o
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