MP: Standards - MA Game (running)

[konming]

Originally Posted by Jazzepi

Oh man, the ocean is so small. It's basically right on the verge of a perfect size for a single water nation. If we had another, it'd be far too small.

The thing to remember about water nations is that they tend to be much weaker on land than a normal land-born nation. R'yleh also lacks real archers (no the psi-blasters don't count), and they get mauled early on by nations with access to good archers, which are plentiful in indy provinces with the right pop type.

Jazzepi

But R'lyeh also gets those indy archers.

[Jazzepi]

Originally Posted by konming

But R'lyeh also gets those indy archers.

You're missing the point.

R'yleh's main troops get chewed up by the archers. There's nothing that comes out of their onland or offland citadels that carries a shield, or has really high protection, besides the meteroite guard, but it's better to just try to get a foot hold on land and build some heavy infantry. And even high protection, unless it's ridiculous Ulm levels, doesn't really protect you as well as having a shield and medium level armor.

Also, on this map, there's far fewer water territories to expand into then a given land nation has if you divide the number of land provinces / # of land players. Additionally, the land provinces are almost always in all directions, meaning you can expand in a concentric circle. On this map, the water nation has to basically expand in a straight line, which is awful because you have to do a lot of troop-time wasting back tracking.

Jazzepi

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by Jazzepi

R'yleh's main troops get chewed up by the archers. There's nothing that comes out of their onland or offland citadels that carries a shield

Not true, the little green Hybrid Troopers have a shield. And they're only 5 resources with 13 HP and two attacks. I avoided them for a long time, but that second attack makes them quite effective even against heavier troops - throw around some Body Ethereal or Luck buffing, and you've got a line that can shrug off a whole lot of arrows.

[Jazzepi]

Protection 5?

I don't think that makes them effective arrow catchers.

My point was that R'yleh lacks a really good means of "hey look at me, I'm your front line of shielded troops, we catch arrows".

Jazzepi

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by Jazzepi

Protection 5?

I don't think that makes them effective arrow catchers.

My point was that R'yleh lacks a really good means of "hey look at me, I'm your front line of shielded troops, we catch arrows".

Jazzepi

< shrug > Doesn't a 4 defense shield protect them from something like 60% of arrows anyways? If you are having purple Starspawns, or Starchildren buffing them, they'll be plenty survivable to most ranged troops, not to mention what they do to infantry.

Believe me, I was skeptical of their usefulness as well, until I decided to build a ton of them to replace my Meteorite Guards I had lost, and couldn't readily replenish. They're quite nice units. Not elite, just quite nice.