MP Standards - MA Game (running) - Page 12

chrispedersen · #**111** August 22nd, 2008, 03:32 PM

I've generally found that my placement seems tied to my scales. Ie., if I take drain, death, etc - I typically end up in wastes. If I take heavy growth, I more commonly end up in forests.

Heavy Production = often surrounded by mountains, forests.

Hasn't anyone else noticed the same?

konming · #**112** August 22nd, 2008, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsiSoldier

Well so far this sucks.. My home province is a wasteland and my income is pathetic.

It looks like you took turmoil 3, which reduce income by 21%, as opposed to most people who took order 3.

konming · #**113** August 22nd, 2008, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

I've generally found that my placement seems tied to my scales. Ie., if I take drain, death, etc - I typically end up in wastes. If I take heavy growth, I more commonly end up in forests.

Heavy Production = often surrounded by mountains, forests.

Hasn't anyone else noticed the same?

I do not really think so in this game. There are 12 placement clusters, other than R'lyeh, each cluster is only 2 or 3 provinces. Everyone is guaranteed some plains and some forest/mountain next to his capital.

chrispedersen · #**114** August 22nd, 2008, 03:40 PM

See, I think the program hashes all sites, and ranks them.
It then goes through and assigns the best sites to the the players with the best scales.

I *think* this to be true - it does seem to have variability.
Also, player created starting locations seem to remove some of the benefit of positive scales, by creating more or less equal starting positions (which I don't think is actually intended).

It would be interesting to take a map with 3 sites in wastes, 3 neutral sites, and 3 positive sites - and then take 3 players with +3 +3 +3 scales, 0 0 0 scales and -3 -3 -3 scales

And see where the computer assigned them. I *don't* think its luck.

JimMorrison · #**115** August 22nd, 2008, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by konming

There are 12 placement clusters, other than R'lyeh, each cluster is only 2 or 3 provinces. Everyone is guaranteed some plains and some forest/mountain next to his capital.

Well, I am just glad that my strat doesn't rely on capital only troops for anything. 5 neighbors, 9/11/16/17/19 resources. One is grass, the other 4 are plains - that's it. :S (Edit - If I had taken Sloth it would be even worse, I'd be buried without being able to build mammoths. It barely works here, so I'm not really complaining, just something you might be wary of next time you do starting positions.)

Oh and last time I played Caelum, it started me in the mountains. I don't think I've noticed too rigid a guideline with that, but it does seem to have a strong tendency towards certain terrain types, with certain nations/scales.

PsiSoldier · #**116** August 22nd, 2008, 05:07 PM

Eh well I do have turmoil but it seems I have even less income than the 25% or whatever penalty would give me from the normal ammount. That and I got hit with a random event that gave me unrest in my capital.. Which sucks even more considering I have luck 3.. just bad bad luck.

konming · #**117** August 22nd, 2008, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsiSoldier

Eh well I do have turmoil but it seems I have even less income than the 25% or whatever penalty would give me from the normal ammount. That and I got hit with a random event that gave me unrest in my capital.. Which sucks even more considering I have luck 3.. just bad bad luck.

I think luck is seriously screwed. In all the games I take turmoil/luck, I get hit by way more bad events than good.

If you go turmoil 3, and other people go order 3, that's already 40% difference in gold. And Pan starts with woodland citadel, which has only 30 admin, so you lose another 10% compared to a fortified city.

Still, you get all those free menads, so it cannot be that bad.

PsiSoldier · #**118** August 22nd, 2008, 05:30 PM

Yeah, I guess by turn 20 I'll have more maenads than I know what to do with. Prob is by then everyone else will have like 20 provinces and I'll still be saving up to buy my second Pan so I can take my 3rd province.. Haha.

konming · #**119** August 22nd, 2008, 05:36 PM

Income = Population/100*(1+domain income bonus)*(1+castle admin/200)

AreaOfEffect · #**120** August 22nd, 2008, 06:18 PM

Assuming you have turmoil 3 and everyone else has order 3, then you have should have 34.7% less gold then everyone else (given that all other things are equal of course). It sounds worse if you compare gold income in the other direction. Those with order 3 should have about 53.2% more gold then you.

However, as noted their are several advantages that tip the balance in the other direction. First of all is the design points. Taking turmoil 3 nets you 240 design points more then taking order 3. Even with luck 3 you are still above by 120 points, which could go to growth and production in order to overcome the income gap, or to your god in order to improve your sacreds. The second advantage is, as already mentioned, maenads. Though you only reap this advantage with the recruitment of Pans. If your not buying pans then there was never a point in taking turmoil, aside from the sweet turmoil luck combo (which I have had much better "luck" with apparently). I personally start my Pangaea games by hiring only the hoplites and Pans if I can afford them. If I can't afford a Pan then I generally don't buy a commander at all and horde the cash until next turn. I might also by the cheapest commander in order to move around my freespawn. I generally do this until my income is more sustainable.

For expansion put the hoplites up front to take arrow fire and use the maenads as flankers. It sounds backwards but I find it works out the best this way.