seiv platinum: good idea?

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Originally posted by geoschmo:
An editor for the Scenario text files would probably be fairly easy. Easier I think than the components files, and we have several of those floating around.

The savegame file itself would not be so easy. You would have to have the source code for the game itself I think, and I seriously doubt that is something Aaron is going to give away. He hasn't even done that for SE2 or SE3 yet.

Geoschmo

Why would be source code necessary ? IMHO only file structure would be - unless some weirdos compression algorithms are also used.
As an example look at what have been done with Baldur's Gate RPG : without any source code divulgation, fans did make impressive tools for EVERYTHING needed to make new adventures modules : NPCs, monsters, locations, items, plots, dialogues...

But well, I'd be unable to do any of this, so perhaps I'm just dreaming...

[dmm]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
An editor for the Scenario text files would probably be fairly easy. ... The savegame file itself would not be so easy. You would have to have the source code for the game itself I think...

You most definitely would NOT need the source code to make a savegame file editor. All that Aaron would need to supply would be an explanation of the savegame file's format, which would take him a few hours, at most. This would allow an interested 3rd party to make an editor. There are some issues that would need to be dealt with in order to prevent slimeballs from using the editor to cheat. But nothing that couldn't be handled pretty easily with a few lines of code and a nondisclosure agreement. The truth is, that SE is Aaron's baby and he doesn't want to let anyone else hold her. Understandable to some extent, but ultimately detrimental to the child.

(Caveat: I know that SE is not really a child. It is Aaron's intellectual property. So society has no say in what he does with it, other than to vote with our feet and money. It just bugs me to see a fine piece of workmanship not fulfill its potential, and hear people make lame excuses for the artisan.)

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dmm,
Till now Aaron seems to have been quite open to allow any tweak/modding of the game. He even went as far as allowing players to CREATE scenarios, but did not supply the editor, seemingly out of time/business interest.
Additionnally it even looks like he authorized Hadrian Aventine to SELL his mods, that are made out of SE4 engine !

Perhaps I'm naive but I think he won't rebutt plea for giving info allowing 3rd parties to make this editor.

[geoschmo]

Dmm, I was not intending to make lame excuses. The fact is I know absolutly nothing about programming and what would be neccesary for such a scenario editor to be created. I was simply making an uneducated guess, as noted by my use of the words "I think".

I am on the same side as anyone who thinks a scenario editor would be a nice thing to have. However, I am also one of the few here who has not limited myself to wishing for a scenrio editor and actually made several scenarios, notwithstanding the current limitations.

Given a little time and work, I believe there is quite literally nothing that is possible in SE4 that cannot be setup in a scenario, with the exception of having it all setup and ready on turn 2400.0, if that is importatnt to you.

Would a bonified scenario editor make this process quicker and easier. Absolutely!

Is it possible to do without one? I think I and a few others have proven that as well.

I am one who prefers to do rather than complain, so when I make suggestions on this forum about ways to get around preceived or real problems, it is not because I am some kind of "Malfador groupie" or something. I just like doing things myself.

Forgive me if the tone of this post appears harsh. I am not trying to be harsh, only clear and direct.

Geoschmo

[Captain Kwok]

I would like to see a scenario editor for SE:IV but that seems most unlikely. As I have suggested before having starting tech levels as an option in game setup would be far easier to add (since he has existing code) and would almost solve 75% of the needs of scenario makers.

[Baron Munchausen]

Originally posted by geoschmo:

I am on the same side as anyone who thinks a scenario editor would be a nice thing to have. However, I am also one of the few here who has not limited myself to wishing for a scenrio editor and actually made several scenarios, notwithstanding the current limitations.

Given a little time and work, I believe there is quite literally nothing that is possible in SE4 that cannot be setup in a scenario, with the exception of having it all setup and ready on turn 2400.0, if that is importatnt to you.

Would a bonified scenario editor make this process quicker and easier. Absolutely!

Is it possible to do without one? I think I and a few others have proven that as well.

Geoschmo

Note: As far as I know the game date is clear text at the beginning of the file. Once it was created you could edit your scenario with a hex editor and reset the date to anything you wanted.

[dmm]

geoschmo: No problem, I didn't take your reply as harsh. I didn't mean to be harsh with you either, nor to accuse you of groupie-ness, nor to be ungrateful for the clever scenario workarounds that you and others have come up with. I'm just frustrated.

A savegame file editor (SGFE) would allow many things that a simple startup scenario can't do at all. A few examples:
1) Doing combat outside of SEIV and then forcing that onto the current game with the SGFE. Or having "house rules" for things like retreat.
2) Allowing events to occur that are not possible otherwise. Examples: Monster attack; extragalactic invaders; shifting warp point connections; unanticipated research breakthrough; civil war; mercenaries; pirates.
3) Allowing events to occur due to triggers rather than randomly. (The triggers don't have to be automatically scripted by SEIV. A human "galaxy master" or a GM program could handle that.)

OK, you get the idea.