OT: US Pres election

[capnq]

Originally Posted by Atrocities

Compare the two, Obama a three year senator who has spent the last year running for office compared to Palin, a women who has managed a large family, her own business, was a mayor and is now Governor of one of our largest energy producing states; Alaska.

This kind of distorted, lop-sided "comparison" is one of the reasons I hate political arguments.

It's not fair look at Palin's entire life for qualifications, but only look at Obama's past three years.

[Atrocities]

Originally Posted by capnq

This kind of distorted, lop-sided "comparison" is one of the reasons I hate political arguments.

It's not fair look at Palin's entire life for qualifications, but only look at Obama's past three years.

True. However it is only fair to point out that Palin is being forced to show ALL of her qualifications while Senator Obama isn't. It is lop sided. But by now we all know who we are going to support so all of this is really just cheap entertainment for us now. I am going to sit back and laugh at all the crap both sides is going to start flinging. Should be fun.

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by Trumanator

Well, as far as I'm concerned Obama just doesn't have the qualifications. The whole "world opinion" argument really doesn't hold water with me, since we're not electing a world leader. I think that you elect whoever's best for YOUR country. Sorry, but there's quite a few countries that I don't respect their government that much.

Well the problem being that the US has in fact tried to take on the mantle of "world leader". I'm not so much talking about their collective opinions per se (somehow humanity puts more focus on opinion than truth, probably because it's easier to find!), but the fact that the nation is not a self-contained entity, and in fact cannot sustain itself in our current style without very deep relations with many other nations.

So what we are faced with today, is that everyone (especially our leaders, who should not be so) tends to be a bit shortsighted, because the scale of world relations has grown so rapidly over the last few decades, that it is hard to fathom.


It's for this reason that I don't run around screaming about how cool Obama is. Also because of the incestual nature of our political system - but mainly because his concept of change is to do the same things, in different ways. The only actual hope that he gives me, is that he inspires such hopefulness in so many others, that maybe people really will recognize a better way if it is offered to them, and we can finally grow up. Not just as individuals, or as a nation - but as a global entity, because that is what humanity is now, and we can never go back to our childhood.

<3

[thejeff]

I do think the differences are pretty stark this cycle. Granted both candidates are more pro-corporate and more pro-American imperialism than I like, but there are still vast gulfs even there.

McCain plans to continue and extend Bush's policies. Sure he talks about being a maverick and shaking things up, but anything specific is right down the same path: win the war, bomb Iran, deregulate the economy, tax breaks for the rich. It's worked so well for the last 8 years, why not continue. And even his Republican colleagues think he's got a nasty temper. So add that to the mix.

Obama's far from perfect, but he's smart as hell and actually appears to take the problems we're facing seriously. And his solutions aren't meaningless pandering like a "gas tax holiday" or massive corporate giveaways. Less experience, but what is experience for if it doesn't give you good judgment.



Regardless, for those in the US who haven't yet: Register to vote. The deadline is coming up in most states.
And then ignore the media, the pundits and the campaign ads. Go and find out what they candidates say they'll do and how it matches what they've done. You have an internet. Use it.
Then go vote.
Don't forget about the local elections either.

[This has been an unpaid political announcement. We now return you to your brewing flame war.]

[thejeff]

I was going to leave it with just my one post. It's much too easy to get sucked in to political debates, but ...

QM, as far as I'm concerned you could end that post with "the idea of Mcain winning."

I'm no more scared of the so-out-of-her-depth-she-can't-be-allowed-to-talk-to-media Palin as president than of a President who's demonstrated as much bad judgment and bad temper as McCain.
Palin was a last minute unvetted pick that did a brilliant job of shoring up his lagging support among the social conservative base and stealing the political spotlight after the Democratic convention. But was there anything beyond the immediate political consideration? Any thought to whether she could actually do the job? That's McCain's judgment right there.
And the idea that she could draw Clinton supporters just because she was a woman? How insulting is that?

[Deadnature]

Well, I think US foreign policy is already preordained in the bigger sense; Slowly withdraw from Iraq, reinforce/help the situation in Afghanistan, confront Russia and Iran in non-violent ways (any talk of war with either is just hooplah)strengthen economic ties with China, improve America's tarnished image etc.

So my vote is going to Obama purely for domestic reasons, I don't like republican policies which give big business a free pass and enrich the already super-wealthy. Also I'm a social liberal, which pretty much means I won't ever vote Republican

[Revolution]

John McCain is 72. I wouldn't trust him to drive a car, never mind run the world's superpower.

[Trumanator]

Well no matter how insulting it seems to you, the polls are definitely showing a swing in women votes. TBH you don't pick a VP for anything but political reasons. In that sense, Palin completely changed the race from going through the motions to an actual race. I'm not sure how much Obama was thinking when he picked Biden, the most concrete point about him is that after half a dozen presidential runs he has never gotten more than a sliver of the primary vote. I am fully with you on the educate yourself part though, this season has brought the media out of the closet and into the open as the biased crapshoot it is.
As far as McCain's judgement goes...at least he doesn't count raging pastors, unrepentant terrorists, and socialist radicals among his friends.

PS- I really hope we can avoid personal attacks in this thread, I don't want to get it banned. Not that anyone has yet, but I want to make sure it doesn't happen.

[JimMorrison]

That's why our presidential process is a complete farce to begin with.

This 2 party system is a great competition between "bad" and "worse", that helps keep people distracted from any issue deeper than those that are directly confronted by the 2 candidates themselves.

Meanwhile, it's well proven that about 70% of what any presidential candidate promises, they will never even attempt to follow through on. And the 30% that they do, is all the stuff you were just willing to overlook, because the stuff you wanted to happen, was in the other 70%.

Screw voodoo economics, we have fully graduated to voodoo politics.

[K]

Originally Posted by Trumanator

Well no matter how insulting it seems to you, the polls are definitely showing a swing in women votes. TBH you don't pick a VP for anything but political reasons. In that sense, Palin completely changed the race from going through the motions to an actual race. I'm not sure how much Obama was thinking when he picked Biden, the most concrete point about him is that after half a dozen presidential runs he has never gotten more than a sliver of the primary vote. I am fully with you on the educate yourself part though, this season has brought the media out of the closet and into the open as the biased crapshoot it is.

The media goes for the throat whenever they they find weakness in either Party. The media frenzy over Palin is simply because you can put her in an interview and embarrass her with almost no effort (for example, when tossed the softball question "what do you think of the Bush Doctrine" and she didn't even know what it was... that was comedy gold, even after she is on record stating "I don't know what a Vice President does" just a month before her nomination).

The fact that the Republican Party tries to demonize the press as the "biased liberal media" every time the press catches them doing something embarrassing ... well, it is very sad that this kind of rhetoric works on the American people.

Originally Posted by Trumanator

As far as McCain's judgement goes...at least he doesn't count raging pastors, unrepentant terrorists, and socialist radicals among his friends.

Feel free to Google "mccain pastor", "mccain terrorists", and "mccain socialist". There are some choice links to articles on the first pages of each of those searches.

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In case you didn't notice, I prefer Obama. He believes in the rule of law and is not trying to take away my civil rights (like Palin's confessed desire to reverse Row v. Wade).