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View Poll Results: Will Hinnom et al be forbidden in most MP games?
No more MP for Hinnom 20 76.92%
No more MP for Gath 8 30.77%
No more MP for Ashdod 9 34.62%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old September 30th, 2008, 02:09 PM

Xietor Xietor is offline
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Default Re: No more MP for Hinnom?

I disagree baalz. The fact that they were smoked in Kingmaker shows they can easily be taken down 2 v 1. There were decent players all around.

You have to use diplomacy in MP games. Otherwise stick to single players. If you are in a game and LA Ermor is eating your neighbor, and you do not help him, then he gobbles you next, do not complain that LA Ermor is too powerful.

You should have got off your arse and ganged him. All races are not equal. Mp games require diplomacy to bring down overpowered races. The fact that your style is to sit and build up rather than fight early wars is irrelevant.

Situations often dictate strategy. The motto for weaker nations is," United we stand, divided we fall." If you are one of these antisocial guys that do not like diplomacy, then you are likely not going to a be a very good at playing dominions in the multiplay context.

If a race cannot beat 2 on 1, it is not overpowered.
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  #2  
Old September 30th, 2008, 02:26 PM

Sombre Sombre is offline
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Default Re: No more MP for Hinnom?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xietor View Post
If a race cannot beat 2 on 1, it is not overpowered.
And what is the reasoning behind that seemingly arbitrary statement?
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  #3  
Old September 30th, 2008, 02:48 PM
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DonCorazon DonCorazon is offline
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Default Re: No more MP for Hinnom?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xietor View Post
I disagree baalz. The fact that they were smoked in Kingmaker shows they can easily be taken down 2 v 1. There were decent players all around.

You have to use diplomacy in MP games. Otherwise stick to single players. If you are in a game and LA Ermor is eating your neighbor, and you do not help him, then he gobbles you next, do not complain that LA Ermor is too powerful.

You should have got off your arse and ganged him. All races are not equal. Mp games require diplomacy to bring down overpowered races. The fact that your style is to sit and build up rather than fight early wars is irrelevant.

Situations often dictate strategy. The motto for weaker nations is," United we stand, divided we fall." If you are one of these antisocial guys that do not like diplomacy, then you are likely not going to a be a very good at playing dominions in the multiplay context.

If a race cannot beat 2 on 1, it is not overpowered.
X, I disagree as to the assessment of Hinnom's impact on an MP game. Here is a quote from Niefelheim who in Hellscape is just slightly more powerful than Hinnom at the moment, though my money is on Hinnom to win this game:

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Originally Posted by Executor View Post
It would appear that both Lanka and Pangaea are trying to put out the Abysian flames, and Hinnom is being attacked from all directions, whilst Rlyeh is surely planning a military campaign of its own with all that army building up.

And while the entire world is at war, the blue flames of Niefelheim grow stronger and await the right moment to fulfill their destiny and became the rulers of this world!!!

Wait...

EDIT: Muahahahahahahaha!!!!
That's better.
So basically, Hinnom has been ganged up on by its two neighbors, Mictlan and Fomoria. Both of the attackers have been beaten down and lost any chance of winning the game. In the classic prisoner's dilmena we were damned if we attacked and damned if we didn't. Meanwhile, Niefel has turtled his way into a respectable position. But I predict as soon as Fomoria and Mictlan crumble, Hinnom's graphs will jump as they do in Omni's first post.

The point of this cautionary tale is, at least in Hellscape, Hinnom creates what I'd call an unfun dynamic as the nation forces its neighbor's into a losing binary outcome. And anyone who doesn't neighbor Hinnom, is clearly going to turtle. So you can almost predict the outcome of a game up front.

Anyway, I don't feel very strong about it because I don't mind losing and I do like variety, but I would caution people that the MP game experience with Hinnom is not as interesting.
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  #4  
Old September 30th, 2008, 02:55 PM

K K is offline
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Default Re: No more MP for Hinnom?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xietor View Post
I disagree baalz. The fact that they were smoked in Kingmaker shows they can easily be taken down 2 v 1. There were decent players all around.

You have to use diplomacy in MP games. Otherwise stick to single players. If you are in a game and LA Ermor is eating your neighbor, and you do not help him, then he gobbles you next, do not complain that LA Ermor is too powerful.

You should have got off your arse and ganged him. All races are not equal. Mp games require diplomacy to bring down overpowered races. The fact that your style is to sit and build up rather than fight early wars is irrelevant.

Situations often dictate strategy. The motto for weaker nations is," United we stand, divided we fall." If you are one of these antisocial guys that do not like diplomacy, then you are likely not going to a be a very good at playing dominions in the multiplay context.

If a race cannot beat 2 on 1, it is not overpowered.
There is also an element of "right tool for the right job."

In this very thread we have a Hinnom invasion army being beaten by Kailasa. That is just stupidly surprising in my book based on the relative strength and cost of their troops, but after some thought I worked out a few early game scenarios where it could happen. Mostly, they revolve around Kailasa's unique strengths and Hinnon's particular weaknesses.

A nation's overall strength is determined not just their potential strengths, but the numbers of tactics and strategies they are were able to develop over the course of play to meet the different situations they will encounter.
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  #5  
Old September 30th, 2008, 05:17 PM

Xietor Xietor is offline
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Default Re: No more MP for Hinnom?

In Kingmaker lanka and kailasa crushed hinnom. of course they rushed him early. both of them.
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  #6  
Old September 30th, 2008, 07:34 PM

WaltF4 WaltF4 is offline
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Default Re: No more MP for Hinnom?

Quote:
Originally Posted by K View Post
In this very thread we have a Hinnom invasion army being beaten by Kailasa. That is just stupidly surprising in my book based on the relative strength and cost of their troops, but after some thought I worked out a few early game scenarios where it could happen. Mostly, they revolve around Kailasa's unique strengths and Hinnon's particular weaknesses.
Which particular national strengths and weaknesses would you be exploiting in the early game?
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Old September 30th, 2008, 09:24 PM

Omnirizon Omnirizon is offline
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Default Re: No more MP for Hinnom?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaltF4 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by K View Post
In this very thread we have a Hinnom invasion army being beaten by Kailasa. That is just stupidly surprising in my book based on the relative strength and cost of their troops, but after some thought I worked out a few early game scenarios where it could happen. Mostly, they revolve around Kailasa's unique strengths and Hinnon's particular weaknesses.
Which particular national strengths and weaknesses would you be exploiting in the early game?
Kail's Awe

Hinnom's lack of high moral units, and often disuse of sacreds (which will generally have the highest base moral that boosted even more when blessed).
and if Kail is not using an Air bless... Hinnom has no missile unit that can be mustered in any significant amount.
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