Guide: Jotunheim MA Guide

[KissBlade]

That's actually a great idea =) Kudos on a very original strat!

[Lazy_Perfectionist]

Not that its valid for Niefelheim, but that same trick also works on demons. I had some experiments with Yomi a while back.

As well, LA Atlantis has W3D?1 priest-mages available at the capital. Cast twiceborn, get them killed off - in your dominion- and then you've got upkeep-free reanimation machines.. Lose the special abilities like sailing, thoguh.

[Sombre]

I don't think reanimating is a big enough deal to warrant anything special to get it. For Niefel it might be though. I know with the cbm version of the Reanimation spell (which doesn't cost 10 gems, it's 2 or something) that it's actually worth using for them.

[Huzurdaddi]

thejeff said:
Neifelhiem is too focused on the Neifels. They are so good, that they demand to be used and demand a strong bless. Every thing else seems to get short shrift in EA.

I totally agree with this. The icebergs are so powerful (almost solely due to the frost aura) that they take up all of the gold for EA.

thejeff said:
And Utgard is Ok, but less focused on the giants. The human troops are better in general as are the human mages.

I don't know about that. The giants are still pretty tough. Especially the leaders if you take a bless.

thejeff said:
And as I've said before, I really like the Vaetti hags. Cheap efficient researchers, blood hunters, site searchers, communion slaves. They're all useful. Did I mention they're stealthy?

I don't know. The hags with astral and blood are very useful. However the nature and death ones are marginal, they are researchers. And they are old which is moderatly nasty especially for a unit with just one path.

thejeff said:
The Jotun army does lack punch though. The EA skinshifters would be a great addition and go a long way to covering that weakness. They tend to get overshadowed by the Neifels, but would really shine in Iron Woods.

Wow. If MA got skinshifters that would be a great change (or if both MA and LA got them). Such a great unit would finally get its day in the sun.

[thejeff]

Both the nature and death hags can do site searching and a lot of the grunt forging/casting work. They just need a Gygja to make one skull staff or thistle mace first. Then they can make more as needed.

I'll agree that the Jotun leaders make good thugs even in Utgard, but the regular troop giants are underpowered.

[sector24]

I rather like the idea of turning a Mound King into your prophet. In general I don't have any prophet specific strategies and even if the # of undead giants you get is low, you still have all these Vaetti Hags that can command 30 undead.

10 giants, 30 undead, and a Hag that spams Frighten makes for a pretty nice low upkeep/low supply army and if you get wiped out the Vaetti can just sneak away and leave the undead behind.

Anyway, I've updated the guide one last time with all the posts since 11-15. Thanks again for all the help and the good comments!

[VedalkenBear]

Sector: Just verified that yes, my idea works. Of course, you have the trade-off of having a Black Servant being your prophet (and thus being stealthy but unable to lead troops) vs. a Mound King. Just FYI.

[anticipatient]

mathusalem said:
and what's about the wolf form of Skratti ? What's use of this shape ?

The use is that GIANT WOLVES are REALLY COOL.

[Aezeal]

hmm just wrote this to someone asking a question, might as well share my opinion with the world though:

OK I've read the thread on MA Jotun and it seems good, no advices that seem strange (some guide do have those)

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=36836

Anyway I can't say much for end game Jotun play but I've tried an idea of my own and it worked pretty well.

Awake cyclops, dominion 9

9 earth magic

Order 3, Sloth 3, Cold 3, Death 1, misfor. 1, Magic 1

I would try this one and then also try the one the creator fo the guide uses and maybe even a dual bless.

If you use 1 bless then earth is always a good option and for an earth bless the cyclops is always the best choice.

a few things: with sloth 3 you can get few troops the first turns so you MIGHT also try S 2 and misfortune 2 for a bit better start. The misfortune will be more of a problem in the long run so if you doubt it when testing I'd go for the one above.

recruit a vaetti hag first turn and a few of the sacreds (as much as possible) 2nd turn you recruit a gode and some more woodsmen.

I've quite some experience with awake cyclopses and I'll share this with you: a dominion 9 cyclops with 9 earth magic has 29 prot and awe 0. this is good. once you see the lands surrounding your capitol (turn 2 that is) he should be able to expand.

Be carefull with him (also experiment with this in your test game it will be usefull in much MP games since you'll probably use the cyclops often) he can take most lvl 5 str indies. but ALWAYS attack the weakest you can find. NEVER ATTACK barbarians of cavalry and be carefull if there are > 50 units (though if they are weak he usually can deal with them)

So your cyclops starts expanding.

turn 3 you will have about 6 woodsmen and a gode (set him on bless, bless, bless and the woodsmen around him on wait and attack except when there are lots fo archers and you want to rush the enemy) they should be able to attack weak surrounding province (basicly the same guide as for your cyclops, leave heavy cav and barbs alone, take them later in the game when you have bigger armies.

try to expand quickly getting more income. Buy vaetti hags or gygja's, your research won't be the best btw, prettty bad actually.
expand outward and not insist on taking the province near your capitol, if possible just take them later, they will be there those closer to the enemy won't.

If you encounter the enemy you either attack right away or offer a NAP. Attacking is a gamble but can be worth while. If you attack then just keep training troops and push for enemy capital. If you NAP all neighbours try to get a 2nd castle end of first year and a 3th maybe soon after so you can train a gygja and some vatti hags so you can get something of research going.

The awake SC should give you a decent expansion by himself, all the troops do is bonus. Just be carefull with him and try to get him a magic weapon (his fist weapon really sucks and a shield before taking on the stronger provinces) I usually for get that I must admit but it improves his combat abilities. Once all indies are gone he can research, site search or throw bladewinds in battle etc etc

As the guide says try to set up a blood econ there are good guide on that on the board (and in the strat index I think)

Mixing vaetti with the woodsmen might be a good idea (as the guide says) personally I think the gygja can do manual site searching pretty well if you have one with 2x2 and 1 or 3 and 2 in paths. )or even better the rare 2,2,2

All I could find out in this (damn) 30 min (bedtime for me) but I think it's actually all you need. you'll just need to try the different start and see what suits you best. (especially experiment with what a certain number of sacreds can take and what not, same for the cyclops)

[WraithLord]

I wonder what are the opinion WRT to MA Jotun and dual bless?- Is it considered a sound strategy?

If so, what are the "best" bless path pairs?- I know E9N9 is very popular for giants, for obvious reasons.

How about W9N9?- You'd say fatigue will kill you and that's right, unless I plan for equipping Jarls with reinvig items. Or plan for short battles, or rush to relief.

How about F9 and either E/N/W 9?

What about S,D and B probably not worth it. Twist fate is useful for low HP sacreds (though MR bonus is good). Affliction chance and death weapons are good for deterring SCs, but I'm not certain its solid enough for a game plan. Strength bonus is mostly irrelevant for the giants.

Any opinions are welcome