Early War AAMG's on German Tanks

[TreadHead]

The Panzer 3e with all the AAMG is good too

That was from the thread "Starting core battle points" currently running in the WinSPWW2 root forum page.

Got to ask... what is the basis for some of the early war German tanks having an AAMG? I haven't run across that in any photos or vehicle specs.

In particular, spob16, Units 007, 008, 198, 203, 204, 279, 389, 579, and 583.

Unit 404, PzKw IIIb/d (s), on the other hand, should have a second CMG as the A thru D models had a pair of MG-34 coaxially mounted to the right of the 3.7cm. This is shown on Unit 352, PzKw IIIa/d.

Thanks, Ross

[DRG]

Good Question.

It could have been an assumtion.
It could have been a cut and paste error.
It could have been somebody in the past provided info contrary to your info.

I am reluctant to remove weapons from units, especially units in the German OOB that probably exist in dozens and dozens of pre-existing scenarios without a very good reason simply becasue the hard reality of this game code is if I take the weapons out it means I have to check every scenario in the game and correct every one that uses those units.

So If I'm going to do that there had better be a very good reason involving irrefutable proof.

I am surprised though that this is the one and only time this has ever been brought up to my knowledge as those AAMG's have been attached to those units in that OOB for at least 7 years and probably longer given the number of people on this forum who specalize in noticing details like this and also that many of these vehicles are currently under discussion on another thread as to whether they should or shouldn't have smoke dischargers .




Don

[TreadHead]

Fair enough. I hadn't picked up on it before since I normally focus on the '43-'45 timeframe. Over the past couple of weeks, I added Cross Sounds 0.9 and did a unit by unit review of spob16 to ensure the sounds matched up. I also did this with an eye to learning all the nuances of the units with an end goal of trying to change some the formations in MobHack. The anomalies were found through that review.

Some of the different things that have been discussed on the forum have made their way into the spob16 on the second copy of the game on my PC that I just use for self-generated campaigns & battles... the AAMG changes, adding CMG's to the late-war Stug IIIg's, changing out the KwK/StG 40's for PaK40's, etc.

I greatly appreciate the flexibility of the game to allow those sort of tweaks (within the limits what's hard coded).

Ross

[PanzerBob]

I wish I had a referance handy, but I have read that with early war Panzer III's and maybe even IV's there was a fair amount of panzers had the MG34's cupola mounted as a field modification. I'll see if I can dig up the referance.

Bob out

[PanzerBob]

Originally Posted by PanzerBob

I wish I had a referance handy, but I have read that with early war Panzer III's and maybe even IV's there was a fair amount of panzers had the MG34's cupola mounted as a field modification. I'll see if I can dig up the referance.

Bob out

Well I'm about to go freakin' blind now. I'm going to back peddle some on my claim. I'm convinced, due to the lack of photographic evidence, that that these AAMG mounts were not common. It is possible that maybe the piece I read only alluded to Panzers in the unit the person belonged to. I will still endeavour to find that write up.

Bob out

[blitzkreig]

Panzerbob,

I'd agree with you on those AAMG mounts. I've seen various sources mention they existed and seen various threads on different forums about AAMG on German tanks.

I have seen the AAMG mount or pintle on photographs fitted on sdkfz 231 armoured car, as well as a late production Pz IV command tank, Panther and a Tiger II, these did not however actually have AAMG fitted to the pintle.

With the sheer volume of pictres of German armoured vechilces in WWII I'd have to conclude that the use of AAMG must have been quite rare otherwise surely there would be more photographs of them?

The only actual picutre of a German tank with a MG34 AAMG (with AA sight) I've seen was fitted to a Panther Ausf A.

This can be seen on page 78 of: Standard Catalog of german Military vechiles by David Doyle

ISBN:0-87349-783-x

[PanzerBob]

Later war panzers, did have them, although I must say most of photographic evidence there is mostly the mounts or provisions for them. I suspect, when not in use, they likely were stored in the Panzer itself. An example of this I know for sure, is the MG34 the StuG's carried. It was not a fitment until the Ausf G's maybe some F's, up to that time they were stored inside for local defence. A design shortfall StuG crews were quick to remedy, no small wonder since the StuG was designed to support the Infantry at least to start with.

Bob out