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  #1  
Old November 8th, 2008, 07:11 PM
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Default Re: Bandar Log - you whipped me with what?!?

As soon as you have Arrow Fend, air bless becomes worthless, and as kailasa is a nation that is not so good early, but can get really strong later. I personally think that a strategy based on compensation their early game weaknesses with sacrificing later power is wrong. A good kailasa should aim to maximize the power of the nation, and not try to make it survive. And the effects of Air and Water bless you get from the spells Arrow Fend and Celestial Music, so you dont take them in the beginning because they will become useless. And for the Shock resistance i had never problems with wrathful skies, as you can finish battles very early, if you have a nice fire bless. (and will of fates )

Also with S9 you can live long enough to conquer almost any indy you want.

Your sacreds survive 2-3 arrows on average when you get N4 bless you regenerate an arrow every 5 turns, and also make sure that it really needs 3 arrows to kill you.

And if someone is intending to kill you, with Conj 5 you get ghandaravas and they can kill lots of archers . Also there are not so many nations that have strong archery and i dont think that a sane player would mass slingers, so that he can engage kailasa.

The only Nations that can field heavy archery early are:
Ulm (Mass Maidens)
Sauromantia (Always be nice to sauromatia they have way to much archery)
TC (they have nice archers)
Caelum (they have archers, but kailasa should not be too afraid from mammoths)
Yomi (Bakemono archers are very cheap)

So i would not recommend an air bless, except in a blitz against one of these nations.

I actually played a MP with an air bless, but the only thing that happened was that i got trashed by helheim.

And if someone really wants to play archery duel, you have always the possibility to recruit your own cheap archers. Or just use markate decoys. Or get Ghandaravas. Or Die (id rather use ghandaravas ).
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  #2  
Old November 8th, 2008, 08:00 PM
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Default Re: Bandar Log - you whipped me with what?!?

While I don't personally agree with THIS...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadrian_II View Post
[...] a strategy based on compensation their early game weaknesses with sacrificing later power is wrong. A good kailasa should aim to maximize the power of the nation, and not try to make it survive
...point, as if you don't survive (survive well possibly) the early game you surely don't arrive to the "maximized" late game where you would shine...

...I must admit you have a point. Kailasa has very cheap units to use as decoys and don't really mind losing in squads of five/six for a couple of turns for distracting the archers (or just recruit shielded indeps). If someone really wants to play the archers game with quality archers (Sauromantia?) you can counter with a mass of recruitable anywhere extremely cheap archers.

With that you should have the time to bring your S9N4/6 sacreds to the enemy, one occasional volley of arrows would probably be twisted-fated or regenerated (and be unlikely to produce afflictions). C'mon, you don't really want your sacreds to take arrow fire anyway. And surely the MR and regeneration bonus will keep being useful till the late game while the Air Shield... and expecially that partial Shock Resistance... mmmh...
Not to talk about the difference between an S9 caster (expecially for an astral nation which will probably have many pearls in the mid-to-late game) and an A9 one...
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Last edited by Tifone; November 8th, 2008 at 08:03 PM..
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Old November 8th, 2008, 10:38 PM

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Default Re: Bandar Log - you whipped me with what?!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tifone View Post
While I don't personally agree with THIS...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadrian_II View Post
[...] a strategy based on compensation their early game weaknesses with sacrificing later power is wrong. A good kailasa should aim to maximize the power of the nation, and not try to make it survive
...point, as if you don't survive (survive well possibly) the early game you surely don't arrive to the "maximized" late game where you would shine...

...I must admit you have a point. Kailasa has very cheap units to use as decoys and don't really mind losing in squads of five/six for a couple of turns for distracting the archers (or just recruit shielded indeps). If someone really wants to play the archers game with quality archers (Sauromantia?) you can counter with a mass of recruitable anywhere extremely cheap archers.

With that you should have the time to bring your S9N4/6 sacreds to the enemy, one occasional volley of arrows would probably be twisted-fated or regenerated (and be unlikely to produce afflictions). C'mon, you don't really want your sacreds to take arrow fire anyway. And surely the MR and regeneration bonus will keep being useful till the late game while the Air Shield... and expecially that partial Shock Resistance... mmmh...
Not to talk about the difference between an S9 caster (expecially for an astral nation which will probably have many pearls in the mid-to-late game) and an A9 one...
I obviously disagree with most of your post except your disagreement with Hadrian about early-late game power balance; i'd like to add to your point that a less than late-game-maximized Kailasa will outperform a late-game-maximized one in early game so much so that they arrive into late game with far more benefits and momentum. In late game things that are maximized through a particular bless become a lot less important while having a healthy economy is much more relevant; meaning the whole argument that an Air bless Kail isn't maximized for late game is really a fallacy, and just wrong.

I'd like to point out to you also that having an A9 pretender with Kail is very important for the magic path provided. First of all, it lets you begin searching out Air sites quickly so that you get a good Air economy built up and ready for when you reach the high-power Air magic and your national summons that can use this magic. Second, you will need this A9 mage to cast Dark Skies which synergizes splendidly with all of Kail's sacreds.
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Old November 8th, 2008, 10:55 PM
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Default Re: Bandar Log - you whipped me with what?!?

You only need A4 to site-search all air sites. Actually, you only need A4 to search plains, A3 is sufficient elsewhere. And the plains A4 site is both unique and very rare.

You only need A5 to cast Dark Skies, and A4 is enough to boost to A5. Can you please explain how Dark Skies works with Kailasa's sacreds? Sorry, I don't understand that.

Edit: Oh, I get it I think, lower morale = more failed Awe checks. Is that the plan?

As an alternative to an A4 god you could even empower an A2 summon to A3, make a Ring of Wizardry with your S9 pretender, make a Bag with your A3+RoW, and cast any A5 global.
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Last edited by vfb; November 8th, 2008 at 11:07 PM..
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Old November 8th, 2008, 11:16 PM

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Default Re: Bandar Log - you whipped me with what?!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vfb View Post
You only need A4 to site-search all air sites. Actually, you only need A4 to search plains, A3 is sufficient elsewhere. And the plains A4 site is both unique and very rare.

You only need A5 to cast Dark Skies, and A4 is enough to boost to A5. Can you please explain how Dark Skies works with Kailasa's sacreds? Sorry, I don't understand that.

Edit: Oh, I get it I think, lower morale = more failed Awe checks. Is that the plan?

As an alternative to an A4 god you could even empower an A2 summon to A3, make a Ring of Wizardry with your S9 pretender, make a Bag with your A3+RoW, and cast any A5 global.
you got it.

but not only is the Air bless worth it. I don't see any point in taking just enough Air on a pretender to cast some spells while not going ahead and getting the strong bless.
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Old November 9th, 2008, 04:22 PM

chrispedersen chrispedersen is offline
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Default Re: Bandar Log - you whipped me with what?!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnirizon View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by vfb View Post
You only need A4 to site-search all air sites. Actually, you only need A4 to search plains, A3 is sufficient elsewhere. And the plains A4 site is both unique and very rare.

You only need A5 to cast Dark Skies, and A4 is enough to boost to A5. Can you please explain how Dark Skies works with Kailasa's sacreds? Sorry, I don't understand that.

Edit: Oh, I get it I think, lower morale = more failed Awe checks. Is that the plan?

As an alternative to an A4 god you could even empower an A2 summon to A3, make a Ring of Wizardry with your S9 pretender, make a Bag with your A3+RoW, and cast any A5 global.
you got it.

but not only is the Air bless worth it. I don't see any point in taking just enough Air on a pretender to cast some spells while not going ahead and getting the strong bless.

There is also another rather nice little synnergy for kailasa.
Dark Skies + Melancholia - which is earth- and what do you know.. kailasa is well equipped for casting earth spells.
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Old November 9th, 2008, 04:28 PM

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Default Re: Bandar Log - you whipped me with what?!?

Regarding Mictlan:

If you are on a crowded map; or if you are in a game with high resources/high money, an air bless becomes more important than an Astral bless for Mictlan.

Mictlans sacred troop production scales slowly, and linearly. So as the resoure/money % gets higher than 100% the balance of how many your troops your opponents will be fielding to your blessed troops gets higher and higher.

I have seen armies of 200+ archers before turn 10. In these circumstances, mictlan is hard pressed to beat archer armies. An air bless drastically incresses mictlans ability in these cases - and yes, it does have a late game cost. But most nations aren't going to get to the endgame....

Mictlan's other option is to build regular troops. However, if she does that, upkeep costs really start make mictlan feel those horrible scales required for a triple bless....
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