Question on Mega Evil

mac5732 · #1 May 25th, 2002, 10:18 PM

Tks everyone for your imput, I understand about the one player domination, but say even tho player 1 has outstripped everyone, during the game, player 2 raises up to the same level thru whatever means, what if they were both tied in all the areas that trigger MEE?? If I read correctly, the way the game is set up, only 1 player could reach the MEE standard at any one time, but what would happen if 2 players were identical? MEE then accordingly, would not be triggered because no one player was dominent, but in this case you have 2 dominent. Granted this sounds like a rarity, but what if it does happen, would both then be MEE?? and would the AI be able to handle it? I mean, with a large or huge map, a good number of players and max planets could this be a possiblity? Which raises another point, could 2 players be tied in all aspects in regards to rankings? in other words have 2 players that could both have the #1 ranking during the game?

just a curious and learning Mac

[ May 25, 2002, 21:23: Message edited by: mac5732 ]

Baron Munchausen · #2 May 25th, 2002, 11:08 PM

Yes, only ONE empire at a time can be MEE. Which means that a map dominated by two large empires won't have any MEE triggered. It's too bad but the AI is limited, like I said. If the AI were more complex it could be told to form a 'league of non-aligned worlds' or some such with the smaller empires in any game. If the AI understood 'borders' and 'proximity' it could even form neighbor/regional alliances in preference to others. More features we can only hope for right now.

mac5732 · #3 May 26th, 2002, 05:09 AM

I once again thk you for your imput, I'm trying to learn the ins and outs of the internal parts of the game. I guess what i'm looking for is, in current games the number 1 and 2 player can form partnerships, military alliances etc with each other. I would think that the 2 dominent or large races would be enemies and would less likely form partnerships etc with each other. When this happens the smaller players really don't have a chance against both the super powers,
it would be nice if something could be done so that 1 and 2 would rarely or at least have only 1 chance in 10 of forming any kind of alliance. this would be mainly with AI and ai vs human players.This way 1 and 2 would growl at each other, the smaller ones would either form their own alliances or suck up to one of the 2 major races. Would make for a little more interesting. But thanks again everyone, appreciate the insight

just a curious and learning mac

PvK · #4 May 26th, 2002, 09:49 PM

Hmm. To me it seems like:

1) It depends on the number of empires in the game. If there are only 3-6 empires, then ya an alliance of the two strongest is likely going to be hard to beat, depending on details. If there are 7-20 empires in the game, then the top 2 may be easily squashed by an aliance of 3 or more others. Again, it depends on details.

2) Seems to me that it's not a problem for the top two AI's to ally. The AI needs all the help it can get to challenge skilled human players. Now, I suppose if two top humans were partners, the AI might be well advised to try to gang up on both of them. Then again, there are several things humans can do to out-do the AI besides that, and I'm not sure this would be good in all cases.

3) MEE is really meant as an attempt to get the game to be more interesting and challenging once one empire starts to become a dominating super-power. It's supposed to provide a major reaction to what would otherwise be a "well, the game's decided from now on" point, and so prolong the interest/challenge from the AI. I originally suggested MEE mainly to counter the problem (before SE4 was released) where players would go capturing homeworlds in the early game, and/or expand like mad without the AI "noticing" and responding to try to limit the threat. It's a strong reaction designed for extreme circumstances.

I wonder though - by reducing the anger levels from MEE in the AI files, and also reducing the threshold, it might produce interesting results - the player who was currently leading would tend to lose treaty support over a few turns... could be interesting.

PvK

capnq · #5 May 26th, 2002, 10:17 PM

Quote:

say even tho player 1 has outstripped everyone, during the game, player 2 raises up to the same level thru whatever means, what if they were both tied in all the areas that trigger MEE?? If I read correctly, the way the game is set up, only 1 player could reach the MEE standard at any one time, but what would happen if 2 players were identical? MEE then accordingly, would not be triggered because no one player was dominent, but in this case you have 2 dominent. Granted this sounds like a rarity, but what if it does happen, would both then be MEE??

As soon as player 2 closes within less than the trigger level, player 1 stops being MEE.

If two players are evenly matched throughout the game, MEE will never trigger, no matter how far they're ahead of the other players.

The odds of two players having the exact same score are, well, astronomical.

The score display only shows scores as multiples of .1K, but that doesn't mean that the scores aren't calculated down to the ones digit. Note that if you turn all scores on, and look at the scores before doing anything else on the very first turn, all the empires are still uniquely ranked.

mac5732 · #6 May 27th, 2002, 04:24 AM

I know the AI needs all the help it can get, the same in most games, however, a human player who is either #1 or #2 could ally with the other one which is AI. In any game but expecially in a game with multiple humans and Ai players could make for an uneven game unless it is restricted prior to game play. In sp play, I guess each human player would have to make his own decision. It just seems that player #1 and #2 should not have it that easy in regards to making treaties with each other, they actually should be on a hightened war footing against each other and scrambling to alighn the smaller races in the game, this might increase diplomacy etc in the game. It would also set in motion the possiblity of the creation of a 3rd power, the smaller non aligned races gathering together to confront both 1 and 2,
Is it possible to tinker with the diplomacy aspects in order to see that 1 and 2 have a harder time interacting with each other, as far as ai and ai/human games.? Its a shame the MEE couldn't encampass the 1st and 2nd rated player at a certain level in the game.
Once again, I thank everyone for their imput

still learning mac

[ May 27, 2002, 03:26: Message edited by: mac5732 ]

capnq · #7 May 27th, 2002, 10:33 PM

Quote:

It just seems that player #1 and #2 should not have it that easy in regards to making treaties with each other, they actually should be on a hightened war footing against each other and scrambling to alighn the smaller races in the game

OTOH, you have the historical example of Germany and the USSR agreeing to partition Poland at the beginning of WW II.

I've got one solo game where I'm #2, and the only player not at war with the MEE TDM-ModPak Ukra-Tal AI (except for the Sergetti, whom I'm at war with; they apparently don't have contact with the Ukra-Tal). My allies keep asking me to break off relations with the Ukra-Tal, but that would put me in a suicidal two-front war.

ISTR reading somewhere that in Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri/Alien Crossfire, the AI is hardcoded so that the 2nd place player will always dislike whoever's in 1st.