Beware of Ashdod

[Kristoffer O]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

Nah. With Niefle I just rotate the SC's out. Set the afflicted SC to research.

With an Exn6 bless, its relatively easy to get a fairy queen to heal afflictions; plus some of the giants have healers native.

You are all so peaceful! You should not consider the game after research lvl 7. If you haven't won by then you will never win Beat Ashdod about early, when they can't heal themselves with fairy queen. You can never plan for late game victories and hope to win. If you do you're a bore

[cleveland]

Originally Posted by Kristoffer O

You can never plan for late game victories and hope to win. If you do you're a bore

This should be in the manual.


Oh, and KO, please ignore any disparaging remarks about Machaka that may have surfaced in the "Machaka = least played nation" thread I started. I've been playing with them since that original post, and I've got to say, WOW. They are friggen awesome.

I don't want to tip my hand per my upcoming MP game, but you want to know how to kill Ashdod? Send an equivalent $$$ worth of Spider Riders at them. In fact, send $.

*skulks off to write Machaka guide outline*

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by cleveland

I don't want to tip my hand per my upcoming MP game, but you want to know how to kill Ashdod? Send an equivalent $$$ worth of Spider Riders at them. In fact, send $.

Have you tested this? In my quick test game, E10N6 Ahimans (which Ashdod can get and still have positive scales) demolished spider knights. (I assume spider riders per se are not critical to the strategy? Spider knights are harder to mass and have no bows but I thought the increased Prot justified the choice.) 3 Ahimans (450 gold) routed 16 spider riders (800 gold) with zero losses. One of the Ahimans got ahead of the pack and got swarmed, resulting in him taking 4 points of damage per turn from poison, negating all but 2 points of his 6 HP regen. Still I think it's safe to say that the combination of high regen, high defense, and high Prot triumphed over the spider rider poison that time.

Just in case, I tried it again with Black Hunters instead of Spider Riders (10 Black Hunters = 1250 gold) led by an F4E4 Scorpion King. Result: 1 dead Ahiman. 10 routed Black Hunters (actually I think 4 of them died) and 1 dead Scorpion King.

-Max

[Nikelaos]

Originally Posted by MaxWilson

Have you tested this? In my quick test game, E10N6 Ahimans (which Ashdod can get and still have positive scales) demolished spider knights. (I assume spider riders per se are not critical to the strategy? Spider knights are harder to mass and have no bows but I thought the increased Prot justified the choice.) 3 Ahimans (450 gold) routed 16 spider riders (800 gold) with zero losses. One of the Ahimans got ahead of the pack and got swarmed, resulting in him taking 4 points of damage per turn from poison, negating all but 2 points of his 6 HP regen. Still I think it's safe to say that the combination of high regen, high defense, and high Prot triumphed over the spider rider poison that time.

Just in case, I tried it again with Black Hunters instead of Spider Riders (10 Black Hunters = 1250 gold) led by an F4E4 Scorpion King. Result: 1 dead Ahiman. 10 routed Black Hunters (actually I think 4 of them died) and 1 dead Scorpion King.

-Max

to be fair black hunters are sacred aswell you know? try it again but give the black hunters a major bless, earth is a no brainer with high protection, a bit o nature also works well after the rider dies, but experiment a bit.

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by Nikelaos

to be fair black hunters are sacred aswell you know? try it again but give the black hunters a major bless, earth is a no brainer with high protection, a bit o nature also works well after the rider dies, but experiment a bit.

Yes, Black Hunters are sacred, but I was not using them as sacred units, I was just curious if Cleveland meant "Black Hunters" when he said "Spider riders." (He probably didn't.) The problem was that the Black Hunters were basically incapable of damaging the Ahimans quickly enough whereas the Ahimans killed the Hunters quite quickly. Adding an E9N9 bless isn't going to change the equation. You're welcome to test it and prove me wrong, but I was already giving Machaka a 3:1 gold cost advantage (450 gold on Ashdod's side vs. 1250 on Machaka's side) so I didn't think it necessary to explore further. Machakan spider riders are not cost-effective vs. appropriately-blessed Ahimans.

And I don't think people play Machaka as a bless nation anyway, do they? E9N8 Black Hunters look cool on paper, but in practice I've found them a bit lacking (N8 doesn't help the rider much, and E9 doesn't help the spider much once the rider is dead). And they're cap-only. I'd rather spend my points on scales.

-Max

P.S. Hmmm. I should mod Machaka so Black Hunters are recruitable anywhere.

P.P.S. I just tried Machakan Hoplites buffed with Strength of Giants. I had high hopes, because regular Hoplites had almost killed one giant in a previous test, but that must have been luck. Hoplites are not cost-effective either. It looks like Machaka's only hope against Ashdod is pretty much to race for Alteration to get Destruction. I'd love to be proven wrong here but I don't see anything other option.

[Nikelaos]

Originally Posted by MaxWilson

Yes, Black Hunters are sacred, but I was not using them as sacred units, I was just curious if Cleveland meant "Black Hunters" when he said "Spider riders." (He probably didn't.) The problem was that the Black Hunters were basically incapable of damaging the Ahimans quickly enough whereas the Ahimans killed the Hunters quite quickly. Adding an E9N9 bless isn't going to change the equation. You're welcome to test it and prove me wrong, but I was already giving Machaka a 3:1 gold cost advantage (450 gold on Ashdod's side vs. 1250 on Machaka's side) so I didn't think it necessary to explore further. Machakan spider riders are not cost-effective vs. appropriately-blessed Ahimans.

And I don't think people play Machaka as a bless nation anyway, do they? E9N8 Black Hunters look cool on paper, but in practice I've found them a bit lacking (N8 doesn't help the rider much, and E9 doesn't help the spider much once the rider is dead). And they're cap-only. I'd rather spend my points on scales.

-Max

P.S. Hmmm. I should mod Machaka so Black Hunters are recruitable anywhere.

you're right, i could have swore he said something bout spiders though and it didn't seem fair testing spiders with f4/e4 bless (those were the paths on his scorpian king IIRC) against ahrimans with E9/N6.

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by Nikelaos

you're right, i could have swore he said something bout spiders though and it didn't seem fair testing spiders with f4/e4 bless (those were the paths on his scorpian king IIRC) against ahrimans with E9/N6.

E10, not E9. Ashdod is one of the rare cases where E10 is worth it. Otherwise Ahimans pick up 1 fatigue per turn of battle and eventually die to chaff units. It helps in other places too, like trampling Ophanim.

-Max

P.S. Heh heh heh. I'm going to call them "Ahrimans" from now on too, because they are. Death-bringers, that is.

Originally Posted by http://www.themystica.com/mythical-folk/articles/ahriman.html

Ahriman, the principle of evil in Persian mythology, was personified as Angra Mainya, "the destructive spirit," who introduced death into the world. He led the forces of evil against the host of Spenta Mainya, "the holy spirit," who assisted Ahura Mazdah, "the wise lord" and final victor in the cosmic war.

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by MaxWilson

Have you tested this? In my quick test game, E10N6 Ahimans (which Ashdod can get and still have positive scales) demolished spider knights.

Cleveland PM'ed me explaining his tactic in more detail. I agree now that spider riders are very cool.

-Max