OT: The ambiance and setting (part 3)

[Omnirizon]

Originally Posted by Endoperez

My understanding is that you can take the same concept and build from that, but you can't copy the original. Neither Shrapnel Games or Illwinter should allow unrelated projects (that aren't direct homage, perhaps not even then) to incorporate such important parts of what makes Dominions what it is. I'm not sure if it's protected by copyright, but I'm pretty sure you aren't allowed to just copy it like that.

Infernos, nation of people whose ancestors cross-bred with fire elementals would be fine, but Abysia, nation of people who were created to be slaves to the original Abysians but out-bred their creators wouldn't.

Thing is, even though Bandar Log is a generic name, castes as different species of monkeys isn't a generic idea. Caelum as a name for flying creatures isn't anything special, but Caelians as winged zarathustran people divided into three tribes (martial, seraph mages, harab necromancers) is.

Pangaea is pretty much conglomeration of minotaurs, centaurs, dryads, panii etc from Greek myths, so you might have a case with Pangaea, as long as you don't include the combination of LA Pangaea lore. Iron as a relatively new invention, black dryads and dryad hoplites, centaurs as the civilized fighters and minotaurs as the sacred keepers of ancient traditions, Panii being the most massively built etc... you could take some of these features, but not all.

I think the species of monkeys as castes is drawn _exactly_ from the mythology and literature of the Ramayana; it isn't dominions unique at all.

You have a point on _how_ the Caelian tribes are split up, or using Pan piecemeal but not in whole. However, going into a new time period I wouldn't be interested in simply reusing this stuff, I'd want to imagine how it would have changed. The closest I'd ever come to using their whole unique categorizations might be in sort of using the history of dominions as history. I'm not interested in copying their content at all, I'm really hoping to create new content inspired by the trajectory of Dominions.

I'm not sure about your whole Abysian point. They are an odd nation in that they are fantasy, rather than mythology, built. Their backstory concept isn't anything unique to history though. I'm just not sure. If any nation might raise copyright trouble on attempting to draw content from into a 16th century setting, it would be them.

If for any reason I would have to come up with some shade of a story (like Infernos) I would simply drop the whole idea; that's just too lame. It would be like having to come up with a shade of a concept: like making some Star Trek spinoff called "Galaxy Trek" or something, with the "Kringons" who weild "Battleteks". It smacks of everything I despise. I have no hang up on using the Dominions world, I really don't care. I just am much more interested in doing the coding and making the game rather than spending lots of time trying to find something to base it off of.

I have a half completed world base already in mind, but all of the world and its races were really just different perspectives of humanness or human history anyway; I was finding it very hard to actually imagine something that was different from what is humanlike. With that problem, I thought I might as well use the dominions stuff since it pretty much embraces all the humanlikeness in mythology, but push it into a time period not really touched upon in dominions. I really thought the player base would enjoy that; rather than be a bunch of troglodytes hung up on copyrights.

If anyone has a problem with me using Dominions stuff, then screw it, I won't. As I said I have no concern with making a 'Dominions' game, I just want to make a game and since I'm part of the Dominions community I thought people would enjoy that. It's not like I'm trying to make something to sell here. It's free, as in freedom, and like free beer

[johan osterman]

Originally Posted by Omnirizon

[I think the species of monkeys as castes is drawn _exactly_ from the mythology and literature of the Ramayana; it isn't dominions unique at all.
..

You are underestimating the amount of original work by Kristoffer. There isn't that much details on monkey nations in indian myth, or at least not that much that has entered into dominions. A fair bit of it is Kristoffer utilisimg human indian society on Bandar Log. Bandar Log were put into being due to a single sentence in the book travels to Cathay by Swedish historian Dick Harrisson, that mentioned an indian myth of a monkey kingdom. As far as I know there is no systematic treatment of the monkey kingdom in Ramayana, certainly none where various species of monkeys and apes makes up different castes. No mention of tiger riding white markatas. No levitating Gurus. No suggestion that serpent kings or devas ruled over the monkeys. The same sort of added stuff is extant in all nations. Many of them have strong counterparts in history and myth, but all of them have significant fluff added and changed in them.

I don't think Kristoffer would mind if you uses dom content for a roguelike, but I feel your characterisation of Kristoffers input into the dominions nations is misguided at best. Reading you posts it sounds like all these nations were just waiting to be plucked out of obscurity, whole cloth.

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by johan osterman

I don't think Kristoffer would mind if you uses dom content for a roguelike, but I feel your characterisation of Kristoffers input into the dominions nations is misguided at best. Reading you posts it sounds like all these nations were just waiting to be plucked out of obscurity, whole cloth.

[falls out of chair] Wait--do you mean to tell me that Agarthan history isn't strictly factual? That the story of the fall of Ermor has been embellished? That the dilution of pure Abysian blood may have been more prosaic Darwinian reality than romantic tragedy? That, just maybe, Bog Beasts don't really exist except in KO's storytelling?

I feel like someone just killed Santa Claus. It's probably better if I just refuse to believe you, Johan.

-Max

[Omnirizon]

Originally Posted by johan osterman

You are underestimating the amount of original work by Kristoffer. There isn't that much details on monkey nations in indian myth, or at least not that much that has entered into dominions. A fair bit of it is Kristoffer utilisimg human indian society on Bandar Log. Bandar Log were put into being due to a single sentence in the book travels to Cathay by Swedish historian Dick Harrisson, that mentioned an indian myth of a monkey kingdom. As far as I know there is no systematic treatment of the monkey kingdom in Ramayana, certainly none where various species of monkeys and apes makes up different castes. No mention of tiger riding white markatas. No levitating Gurus. No suggestion that serpent kings or devas ruled over the monkeys. The same sort of added stuff is extant in all nations. Many of them have strong counterparts in history and myth, but all of them have significant fluff added and changed in them.

I don't think Kristoffer would mind if you uses dom content for a roguelike, but I feel your characterisation of Kristoffers input into the dominions nations is misguided at best. Reading you posts it sounds like all these nations were just waiting to be plucked out of obscurity, whole cloth.

Fair enough. I've always thought that the most impressive work of KO was his research into cultures and mythology and then mapping this onto their history. I do understand that some flavor specifics such as levitating Rikshi's and specifics in the organizations and constructions of nations are all his own; but I really find the whole bricolage aspect of it all much more creative and grand, rather than those kinds of details.

to that end, it is that bricolage that I want to borrow and build upon.