PPB Rebalance Poll

[Baron Munchausen]

Originally posted by oleg:
Baron, give up on emmisive armor. It is virtually impossible that MM will finally return to SE III model. He is certainly very well aware that he made it to work this strange way and he has some reasons to stick to the change. However, I can not find even a single one myself.

No, he acknowledged that this was wrong and tried to fix it in a long-ago patch. It didn't work. I'm hoping he will try again but I think it's tied to the whole 'damage allocation' issue which is quite a mess. You know about things like damage being transfered from shields to armor and from armor or inside components when different types of weapons hit in succession? I think he's going to have to completely revamp his damage allocation system sooner or later.

[Baron Munchausen]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
"though by the time you get to APB lvl 12 you may have spent as much or more than PPB V."

4 times as much actually. From a low tech start anyway.

Phoenix-D

Ah... it's still the same starting cost as APB in the default config. I've changed it to start at 20000 in my own personal mod. That makes lvl V cost something like 300000.

[raynor]

In my opinion, the problem with the current tech tree is that there isn't a significant advantage to researching weapons higher up the tech tree. Certainly, the Null Space Projector is an exception because it is great against Starbases that may have tons and tons of both armor and shields. But it seems like most of the other weapons that you get further down the way are seriously underpowered due to their low rate of fire.

Would anyone disagree with giving the Wave Motion Gun a ROF of 2 instead of 3, increasing its range by 4 and upping its damage by 50%?

What about the Graviton Hellbore? What happens if we double its range altogether?

The PPB seems to be the poster child for problems with the tech tree. But I wouldn't modify just this weapon. Still... I guess if you reduced the power of this weapon, then it would make the WMG and Grav Hellbore seem less inadequate.

[Phoenix-D]

"Would anyone disagree with giving the Wave Motion Gun a ROF of 2 instead of 3, increasing its range by 4 and upping its damage by 50%?"

Can we say "overkill"? Remember that the WMG gets a 30% bonus to hit, and if the WMG ship has superior speed it can pop in and out of range. Painful.

One *maybe* two of those would be good, but all three would be too much. Actually just the range increase alone, maybe with a slight boost to to-hit, would be enough. That and make the Ripper and Incinerator beams seperate weapon families.

Phoenix-D

[raynor]

Some numbers:

Wep Damage Rng size Research Cost(medium)
APB XII 65..45 (8) 30Kt 1,600,000 (ROF 1)
Meson VI 35..35 (6) 20Kt 510,000 (ROF 1)
PPB V 60..60 (6) 30Kt 290,000 (ROF 1)
WMG III 140..140 (8) 70Kt 4,212,000 (ROF 3)
GHB V 145..40 (8) 60Kt 290,000 (ROF 2)

That Last one is the Graviton Hellbore V. Wow. I didn't realize that one was so easy to get compared to the Wave Motion Gun. Which would you rather put on your ship: a weapon that costs 1/14th as much to research and fires 50% more often and weights 10Kt less... Wow! (Granted, its damage definitely falls off over distance.)

Here are some other numbers:

Null Space Projector skips shields *and* armor and does this damage:

NSP III 60..60 (5) 50Kt 187,500 (ROF 3)

I might set the rate of fire on the Wave Motion Gun to 1 and let it fire every turn for a total research cost of 4.2 million and twice the size of the APB XII that costs a third as much to research.

With an ROF of 3, you could put 2 APB XII's on a ship and get 270 damage points at max range 8 every three turns compared to a single WMG doing only 140 damage points at the same range during the same timeframe. Plus... the WMG is more likely to miss and do no damage at all.

Anyways...

[Phoenix-D]

"Which would you rather put on your ship: a weapon that costs 1/14th as much to research and fires 50% more often and weights 10Kt less... Wow!"

Key difference: the Hellbore *does not get a bonus to hit*. The WMG DOES- a 30% bonus. That means the WMG is a heck of a lot more likely to connect at max range.

Phoenix-D

[raynor]

Yep. You're right. The Graviton Hellbore doesn't fare very well against the WMG. In addition to the 30% bonus of the WMG, that cliff-like drop-off of damage possibly plays a role as well.

So, let's go back to comparing the PPB to the WMG.

Because of the tech cost difference, I don't think it is fair to assume a ship with the WMG is going to have the speed advantage sufficient to maintain maximum range. So, the PPB devastates the WMG ship. With a speed benefit of 3 to the WMG ship, it seems like the two ships are in a dead heat.