PPB Rebalance Poll

[Taera]

I think that reducing the ROF without increasing the damage would make it unsuitable as a primary weapon. You would have changed it to a torpedo then. If you do that then any race that uses the PPB should be changed to use it only as a secondary weapon and stick with a ROF 1 weapon for main armament.

I have to agree with the Baron that reducing rate of fire would make it unsuitable for the role of a primary weapon. Increasing size might not be a bad idea, but I really think that increasing the research effort would be all that is needed.

OK. I will explain my own opinion.
You might notice that in the game all weapons with some special abilities are support weapons - NSP has RoF 3, Ionic Dispenser have been fixed, Tachyon Projector is expensive and has ROF 4. Repulsor/Tractor weapons are limited in their strenght by size tonnage.Shield depleter is shield depleter, no damage to anything else. Shield dustruptor is just same as Tachyon Projector, a hell expensive thing. Same with Computer Virus.

So all the weapons with "special ability" are made this way that even while being mostly not any difficult to reach, having disadvantages from "normal" weapons and thus being reduced to support weapon scale, what they are supposed to be.
Very similar thing was in SEIII - the PPB was reduced in effect due to being not too easy to research and having 2/3 of the damage the PPB does have, plus to the deal that Emmisive Weapon was stopping it completely.

The point is that PPB is supposed to be a "special" weapon, support weapon, call it however you want. But in the SEIV the PPB is brought to the point of being one of the cheapest techs to research (50+100 research, and then 5 levels beginning from 5k -- cheap), having damage superior to most weapons of the same time, including APB at most levels and being averagely cheap with tonnage of 30kT only.

I realy wish to see the weapon reduced back to its special place. There are many ways and each one is good.

[Suicide Junkie]

I disagree with the idea of making research harder. If you do that you'll never get them before the enemy has phased shields and will never be able to exploit their special damage type.
IMHO PPB should be balanced to make them useful ONLY when you can exploit their special ability and become obsolete once phased shields come into play. A solution to acieve this should involve rebalancing not only PPBs but also SGs and PSGs (I recall complains about shields being too weak)

Have you considered making phased shields weaker than normal shields, but available at roughly the same tech level?

If phased weapons were set to be 60% of the strength of normal weapons, and you had the choice between a phased shield, and a normal shield that was 50% stronger, which would you choose?

You can keep both types of shields useful, while phased weapons become support rather than main-guns.

[God Emperor]

I agree with those who suggest that the problem isnt necessarily PPB's but the fact that there are no better weapons further up the tech tree. WMG's rate of fire is too slow for it to be an automatic replacement for PPB's.

What we need are additional weapons (like in MOO2) such as disruptors, phasors, Gauss Cannons, Neutron BLasters, Stellar Converters, Plasma Bolts, etc.....

Sounds like a few of us need to come up with some additional components!

[kalthalior]

I usually don't get involved in controversial subjects like this, (being somewhat new to the game, and esp. new to the board!) but I guess I will put in my two cents. Has anyone proposed making PPB a 40kt weapon? Doing that (making mounts alot less effective for the size at 60kt/80kt etc.) and upping the research a trifle could make it bring it more into line with the other DF weapon families. I have to agree with whomever said that the entire weapons/damage structure should be looked at in its entirety. I am especially confused about Mesons and APB, what is the point in having two DF weapons so much alike? Maybe Mesons should skip armor (which I think someone proposed awhile back)?

[oleg]

Change size can also work, but 30 to 40 is
almost 33% drop in damage per size.

MB are easier to research and at first they give
more damage than APB. But as time goes APB outgun MB. This part of tech tree is very nicely balanced, IMHO.

[Baron Munchausen]

It's bizarre how someone can say something three times and still someone else will bring it up as a 'new' suggestion in the same thread. Is our computer-driven haste making us that absent minded?

[Andrés]

I agree with Taera, PPB should be a "special" support weapon, and not a main super weapon.
That's why I think that they should not be more difficult to research but have a lower damage ratio, no matter if that's achieved by lowering damage, increasing tonnage or increasing reload time.
Most complains are from people that is too used to use it as their main weapon, and fear that their strategies will crumple once you take away the weapon they depend on.
You have the same problem with AI.
Many of the best AI races use or abuse the advantages of PPB, and if it's changed they will suffer.
Changing the data files locally for a personal mod does not solve the problem, unless you want to edit every AI race, what would be a great mod. Removing the advantage in PPB, although it enhances overall balance, will certainly disrupt the status quo, and AI races will have to be updated accordingly.
That is why we're discussing and trying to reach an agreement.
If we can find a simple solution that most players like, then we can submit it to MM for inclusion, next patch in the official game.