MP Chronicles_MA - General Game Discussion - Page 21

quantum_mechani · #**201** December 13th, 2008, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

Im sorry. Ive tried but I cant get into role playing the CBM version of Pangaea. Its abit confining. As much as I like the idea of the game Im afraid Im going to pull out of it.

I may regret asking this, but what is possibly so drastically different about CB from an RP perspective? If there is one thing I've tried to maintain in CB it's the same IW theme (despite many suggestions to add units or other drastic measures). I just wonder how some units being a cheaper, and some spells and items being cheaper/easier to cast/forge could be such a factor, unless satyrs costing 10 gold is a critical part of the story...

Gandalf Parker · #**202** December 13th, 2008, 02:22 PM

I didnt mean to disparage the mod. I can see where the changes definetly boost the MP gaming. Making Carrion Woods 0 level and Vinemen 3 per cast is a great boost along with the other changes. In fact, they are so good that its part of the problem. I suppose I could ignore them and play my usual style but it feels so wrong.

An obvious choice would be to take a pretender with at least 5d6n and a ton of dominion strength and growth scales. Then choose your spell research to move quickly toward the unholy priest spells insupport of plant armies. Probably take Carrion Dragon or Mother of Monsters instead of Lord of the Wild. Being able to cast Carrion Woods on turn 8? even sooner if you search while you expand. Thats a powerful temptation. And you would want to expand connectedly in an amoeba style building lots of temples as you go. The result would definetly be competitive. And Lord of the Wild has become a worthwhile SuperCombatant which I am sure some people loved. The changes just were not in the direction I play Pangaea altho they probably are in the direction that most people try to play it. Its a much more Ulmish format now.

But I was going for Lord of the Wild. Maenads to do the local expansion while I built and scattered stealth armies. Probably 4d,4n,4b and dom5, turmoil 3, sloth 2, heat 1, growth 2, luck 3, magic 3.

"I have taken the mantle to lead my people thru these troubling times. I have had them drop the titles of Lord of Revelry and Lord of the Hunt. I am now Primal, the Natural Disaster, the Shadow, the King of the Crossroads.

Other non-humans have created nations. That is not a problem. We have a nation. But this newcomer MAN creates a nation, then another nation, then another nation, until there are as many man nations as there are non-human nations. The future paints a picture I do not like. It seems apparent that the non-humans must band together to battle this threat. After Man is gone in his many forms THEN we can fight out the rest amoungst us.

I do not wish to change my people into that which I wish to fight. Our strength has never been in armored armies matching across the land. We shall send out scouts and hopefully find neighbors who are non-human to ally with. We shall send out quiet armies in support of those allies while keeping our own nation small and low profile. We shall watch the battles of others as they weaken each other. When the time is right, we shall strike from the shadows. "

Anyway I had in mind something like that. Like I said, there is nothing in cbm to keep me from doing it anyway. Maybe later I will change my mind but for now it seems really wrong to ignore the obvious advantages that cbm grants. And Ive tried RPing that format but it just doesnt feel like my Pangaea. Id rather pull out than do it injustice.

DonCorazon · #**203** December 13th, 2008, 02:27 PM

I always think of CB as increasing choices, not pointing to a particular path. i don't think the carrion / undead route is a no-brainer in CB, since once people get some anti-undead capabilities, it can be a dead end strategy. Its just more viable but undead mastery pretty much eliminates the main threat of undead Pangea. Anyway, I think it would be sad to drop out just because you felt a mod compelled a certain direction. IMHO that's not the case at all,

DonCorazon · #**204** December 13th, 2008, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tifone

Yay, but we will need to write them somewhere before Lokean can move them to the wiki, so I was just thinking the old thread was more appropriate.

The old one is locked though, i think.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tifone

Btw... I was wondering what does your avatar represent...

Nothing really - it's an old pic from the AD&D player's handbook of some old guy smoking a pipe on a dice. Just showing my props to the grandfather of fantasy gaming, gary gygax, rip

quantum_mechani · #**205** December 13th, 2008, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

I didnt mean to disparage the mod. I can see where the changes definetly boost the MP gaming. Making Carrion Woods 0 level and Vinemen 3 per cast is a great boost along with the other changes. In fact, they are so good that its part of the problem. I suppose I could ignore them and play my usual style but it feels so wrong.

An obvious choice would be to take a pretender with at least 5d6n and a ton of dominion strength and growth scales. Then choose your spell research to move quickly toward the unholy priest spells insupport of plant armies. Probably take Carrion Dragon or Mother of Monsters instead of Lord of the Wild. Being able to cast Carrion Woods on turn 8? even sooner if you search while you expand. Thats a powerful temptation. And you would want to expand connectedly in an amoeba style building lots of temples as you go. The result would definetly be competitive. And Lord of the Wild has become a worthwhile SuperCombatant which I am sure some people loved. The changes just were not in the direction I play Pangaea altho they probably are in the direction that most people try to play it. Its a much more Ulmish format now.

But I was going for Lord of the Wild. Maenads to do the local expansion while I built and scattered stealth armies. Probably 4d,4n,4b and dom5, turmoil 3, sloth 2, heat 1, growth 2, luck 3, magic 3.

"I have taken the mantle to lead my people thru these troubling times. I have had them drop the titles of Lord of Revelry and Lord of the Hunt. I am now Primal, the Natural Disaster, the Shadow, the King of the Crossroads.

Other non-humans have created nations. That is not a problem. We have a nation. But this newcomer MAN creates a nation, then another nation, then another nation, until there are as many man nations as there are non-human nations. The future paints a picture I do not like. It seems apparent that the non-humans must band together to battle this threat. After Man is gone in his many forms THEN we can fight out the rest amoungst us.

I do not wish to change my people into that which I wish to fight. Our strength has never been in armored armies matching across the land. We shall send out scouts and hopefully find neighbors who are non-human to ally with. We shall send out quiet armies in support of those allies while keeping our own nation small and low profile. We shall watch the battles of others as they weaken each other. When the time is right, we shall strike from the shadows. "

Anyway I had in mind something like that. Like I said, there is nothing in cbm to keep me from doing it anyway. Maybe later I will change my mind but for now it seems really wrong to ignore the obvious advantages that cbm grants. And Ive tried RPing that format but it just doesnt feel like my Pangaea. Id rather pull out than do it injustice.

Personally I would be very wary of using carrion woods even in CB, pop death can be significant and you have no guarantee it wouldn't be dispelled. If it truly is a no brainer though, that would definitely mean something that needs to be changed.

Even assuming for a moment it's by far the best choice though, it kind of pales compared to the unthematic options encouraged by the base game.

Tifone · #**206** December 13th, 2008, 03:04 PM

I've tried the early Carrion Woods Pangaea several times in SP and it definitively doesn't seem to me as easy to me as it looked at first glance (consider managing all that freespawn with limited undead leadership!). Funny and challenging, I'd say

Still it's not the only way to play CBM Pangaea at all!

I humbly hope mr Gandalf will rethink his decision... If you do, remember that CBM makes Touch of Madness cost 1N gem! (important if you were planning a maenad factory IMHO) Probably quantum_mechani was finding all those inadvertently berserkr Pans annoying

(still I'd prefer ToM made an higher range instead, imho Pangea needs the spell badly

)

Gandalf Parker · #**207** December 13th, 2008, 04:14 PM

@Tifone, thats nice but I dont tend to use the Maenads much. That is still marching-army. I see also some cost changes to "appropriate" units.

I like to play nations like Pangaea and Caelum and Arcos because they support play other than Ulmish armies just using another nations units.

Now if he made Maenads stealth, or made the plants steath (which would probably be more thematic) then Id be thrilled. Or made the Pans or Pandemoniacs assassins. The Dryads seducers.

He gave Lord of the Forest 4 dominion-based animal summons, and 2 menu'd animal summons. But unfortunately thats not one of Pangaeas gods.

Im not saying these are suggestions. Just that they would tend to impact the Pangaea that I play.

Tifone · #**208** December 13th, 2008, 04:24 PM

AFAIK so deep changes would have been out of quantum_mechanic's purpose for the mod.

But I'm sure he can answer better

quantum_mechani · #**209** December 13th, 2008, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

@Tifone, thats nice but I dont tend to use the Maenads much. That is still marching-army. I see also some cost changes to "appropriate" units.

I like to play nations like Pangaea and Caelum and Arcos because they support play other than Ulmish armies just using another nations units.

Now if he made Maenads stealth, or made the plants steath (which would probably be more thematic) then Id be thrilled. Or made the Pans or Pandemoniacs assassins. The Dryads seducers.

He gave Lord of the Forest 4 dominion-based animal summons, and 2 menu'd animal summons. But unfortunately thats not one of Pangaeas gods.

Im not saying these are suggestions. Just that they would tend to impact the Pangaea that I play.

I think I've lost the train of this discussion, I thought the problem was you thought CB already changed the theme too much? Surely stuff like adding abilities to units would be much more intrusive than changing costs.

Gandalf Parker · #**210** December 13th, 2008, 04:47 PM

Yes it would. Thats why those are non-suggestions.
Im just trying to point out the Pangaea I play vs one that others like.

I didnt say that CB changed the theme too much. It just seemed to go down one line. If I tended to play Carrion Dragon and Carrion Woods then I would be totally in love with CB all the time. Im just not the kindof person to role play Carrion Dragon or Mother of Monsters. In real life I have had jobs involving animals but I do not have anything close to a green thumb. My preferred view of Pangaea isnt much plant-based.
In an MP game I could get into it but not an RP or Solo one.
If someone wants to take my spot then feel free to do so.