How do I use ammo trucks?

[RERomine]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

I've got a better answer for you as to why people think they have better spotting ability.

SPWaW Manual Quote

Recon Special Ability
Some infantry and vehicular units have the Recon special ability. This gives recon infantry a 25%
spotting bonus, while recon vehicles do not suffer the normal 50 percent spotting penalty for
vehicles. This is a bonus given to a formation using the “1” special flag in the Order of Battle
editor.

Many people have played both and often references are made in ladders without specifically stating which product it is referring. The information gets crossed up.

[Charles22]

RERomine:

(P1) Aircraft not expected with 20 visibility. how do you deduce that? Sure, there's less space to shoot them down, but I don't get it. I see your game guide quote, but I still wouldn't take chances. Good to know though, maybe half to a good AA defense, the rest to maybe add to attacks (of course 'unlikely' may mean 49%). I was trying to clarify that I think HT's are technically AFV's anyway, but I don't really think of them as such. They are armored, and they can fight, just not very much is all (at least early GE ones) and their being open-topped very often, makes them definitely not precisely on the level I usually think on an AFV as, but still.

(P2)Woah, so the 'unlikely' came to pass afterall. You got set up.

(P3)Yes, I realize you do, but that was part of my point, that most air attacks aren't worried about unloaded infantry and unless it is level bombers, is unlikely to cause enough damage to make it worth the strike at them if it does. If they have no AP rounds left though, that's a pretty good place to go. I can see too, with FB's that the thing is to shoot them down so they don't pester you as much, even with no AP rounds left, but naturally that is best achieved if you can figure out where they will go. I haven't studied the AP-less FB, as the combat way of doing it is to know how many flights the AI has, and be aware of their loads, and keep track of how many times they have dropped what. Not having access to their roster, I don't think one can tell whether the next attack is the same FB or not, further complicating things. Perhaps if there is only one or two of them this is quite easy?

(P last) No I have scouts. I said they're "combatively" useless, not that they're useless totally. With Gerry anyway, I carry a scout section and an AC section. Scouts become more interesting if they carry some form of satchel charge, as indeed some of the USSR and Finn ones do; later for Germany I guess. Besides, now that you know more clearly my secondary reason for having something in core, they could fit into the category of being there to soak up just time in the core promotions for a later blossoming in hard times. With such a large map, that's not very wise though because their main purpose is to recon. I frequently lose one or two of them, and unlike some of my infantry that I might be a little protective about, since they have currently little to no weaponry, therefore my main purpose with units neglected for the time being (exp gained by combat through the core) without useful weaponry, is to use them more boldly in doing their job, which I if I have any sense, will be for them to fire little or none at all but just very forward. IOW, if a unit has a front line duty of sorts, and has no real combat value, then they're more expendable. But it's hard to really expend them, even if you want to, when you're trying not to fight with them.

As for pnzrfsts being useless for them, I was referring that only to what I would think is their secondary role, attacking rearward guns. We only got on the subject because I entertained your idea of dropping airborne scouts in the rear, otherwise my scouts would probably never be sniffing around back there. BTW, I know you can't cover everywhere with everything, and we usually think of the flanks as not being overrun, so pnzrfst scouts in the role you described could be fine, but I think you would agree that, if you could, you're much better off stopping AFV's in that situation with full squad pnzrfst capable units, not scouts.

No, don't even go the unarmed unit track with me, as obviously they have weapons (they just die far too easily once they're spotted). I'm not too aware of their stealth getting to the rear, and I would question why they would want to get as close as 2 hexes from enemy infantry and then peel back. Can't they see the infantry before then? I would think that moving to that second hex away, and then peeling back, if on the same turn, would have them spotted for all that close movement, LOS still being the same. I seem to have mine spotted far too easily against allegedly somewhat inferior infantry, but they're still not useless in my book nonetheless.

[Charles22]

Well how's about getting back on track ammo truck-wise then?

I post the following as a point of consideration for campaigners against the AI, how scripted campaigns would work in this regard, I do not know.

It occurs to me that the AI doesn't use ammo trucks (or buy them), and therefore that usually is giving the player an unfair advantage, just like airdropping when we know the AI cannot do the same thing. There are limits to this needless to say, that we should never do anything because the AI does them not, but the question should always be on our minds to police ourselves and see if we aren't giving ourselves a large advantage, and then, perhaps, complain how the AI is terribly lacking, when we have a significant part in the blame.

As for me, I have been using ammo trucks with my forces, but it's to somewhat shore up a disadvanatge I often suffer from the AI, so it's not a great advantage by any means. And that is I use the one of the two ammo trucks I have, primarily to feed the four IG's in core. That and a core 100mm btry are usually all the artillery I have, so you can see how giving the IG's more ammo isn't too bad to somewhat match the AI having much more artillery than I do. On rare occasions, usually after the battle is already half way through, I may have a need for that 2nd ammo truck to add ammo to some of the units who had really lost a lot of ammo. Yes, that is an advantage over the AI. Not a significant advantage for the most part, particularly since it's so late in the fight they're used, and because it is only one truck for that, so the re-supply amount isn't terribly great.

If I am correct, the AI wouldn't use ammo trucks well anyway. Probably do lame things like march with the advance and start feeding front line AFV's. OTOH, getting units that are depleted to go to some safe zone to meet it would probably take a programming miracle this game would not have attempted.

Just something to consider in your gaming.

[m113apc]

The use of ammo trucks is a matter of taste.
I use them, not many but I have some, and they are a part of the strategy.

The advantage I get in having these vehicles, I make up to the AI in numbers & strength.
So the AI gets to buy more stuff than me. And often, the AI has masses of arty of all kind, onboard and off board, pounding away on my forces.

I would really love to see those enemy ammo trucks driving away in the middle of an enemy attack or advance. I guess many in here have seen the results of an ammo dump going of, with secondary explosions. I have lost a few because of that.

When I think of it.
Have anyone tried, or thought about using them as IED.
Just think about it. You are expecting an enemy advance through a dense forest, or something similar, where you can place your ammo dump or vehicle.
You place it so the enemies don’t see it before its one hex away; my guess is that the AI will blast away on that unit. That would do some damage on the enemy, wouldn’t it?

[Imp]

Ages ago I had a real tough battle for both sides, he had managed to reload his TOS-1s But I was after them & he was having to use them in direct fire mode vs my tanks. There were lots of little clumps of close cover & on his turn 3 ammo trucks charged my armour. Stopped 2 at a couple of hexes which if I remember both blew up the third got right up to a tank but luckily did not go bang when it died.
It was a totaly crazy battle you would load the game & see a tank company had vanished before even hitting the replay button.