Coastal Artilley

[DRG]

Originally Posted by iCaMpWiThAWP

i still cant understand the reason of the HE penetration 14 on the brit 9.2in

That's a typo as well. It should be 5. It was the one weapon missed the last time we checked those type of guns


Don

[chuckfourth]

Hi Don
The difference between a coastal gun and "any other land based gun" is this, the coastal gun has a big fat naval type rangefinder and naval type gunnery control centre, a ships "bridge/conning tower" on land.
This allows them to successfully engage ships far out to sea which a normal land based gun cannot.
So treating coastal guns(`150mm and above) and land based guns the same doesnt take this into account.
It would appear for Germany at least that pretty much any battery of guns over 150mm in a coastal defence role had a quality rangefinder and probably a control centre.
See,
http://www.normandiememoire.com/NM60...1_p2_13_gb.htm
http://www.normandiememoire.com/NM60...1_p2_03_gb.htm
http://www.normandiememoire.com/NM60...1_p2_01_gb.htm
http://www.normandiememoire.com/NM60...1_p2_06_gb.htm
http://www.normandiememoire.com/NM60...1_p2_05_gb.htm
http://www.normandiememoire.com/NM60...1_p2_04_gb.htm
http://www.normandiememoire.com/NM60...1_p2_14_gb.htm
http://www.normandiememoire.com/NM60...1_p2_22_gb.htm
and it is of course ludicrous to suggest that the italian 12 inch gun is mounted as coast defence without similar accessory equipment.

From
http://www.normandiememoire.com/NM60...sto1_p1_gb.htm
"more than forty guns of a calibre ranging from 105 to 240 mm(~9inch)"along a "30-kilometre stretch of sea front" resulted in this, "The Allied fleet, however, which had started bombarding Cherbourg during the attack, was kept at bay by the heavy coastal batteries."
Exactly the opposite is modeled in your game as shown by the comparison of the insect gunboat (accurate and AP round) to the Italian 12 inch coastal gun (inaccurate and AP round removed).
Is the reason the coastal guns have their AP removed because the indirect fire naval artillery has none? because if so it certainly gives the enemies on-board flotilla and landing craft an easy ride in The unrealistic combination of the coastal guns low accurracy and no AP means even if you hit anything you cant sink it.
As a rough guide assuming the insect gunboat has a rangefinder and that its accurracy of 30 isnt another typo then 30 could be considered it as a guide to what the coastal guns accuracy should be. As a shore based gun isnt moving, pitching, yawing or rolling the shore guns accuracy should be something better.
Best Regards Chuck.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by chuckfourth

The difference between a coastal gun and "any other land based gun" is this, the coastal gun has a big fat naval type rangefinder and naval type gunnery control centre, a ships "bridge/conning tower" on land.

--SNIP

Originally Posted by chuckfourth

Exactly the opposite is modeled in your game as shown by the comparison of the insect gunboat (accurate and AP round) to the Italian 12 inch coastal gun (inaccurate and AP round removed).
Is the reason the coastal guns have their AP removed because the indirect fire naval artillery has none? because if so it certainly gives the enemies on-board flotilla and landing craft an easy ride in The unrealistic combination of the coastal guns low accurracy and no AP means even if you hit anything you cant sink it.
As a rough guide assuming the insect gunboat has a rangefinder and that its accurracy of 30 isnt another typo then 30 could be considered it as a guide to what the coastal guns accuracy should be. As a shore based gun isnt moving, pitching, yawing or rolling the shore guns accuracy should be something better.
Best Regards Chuck.

Do tell Chuck ------exactly how many of the "naval gun" units in the game which have weapons with 60 accuracy have rangefinder and firecontrol ratings above zero ? That is all units in the game like the Italian "Art Navale" or the US or Japanese "XXin Naval Gun" or the German "XXXmm Naval gun"

Hmmm ??

Do a nice long exhaustive check and get back to me on that. Take all the time you need.

Just as a reminder the question is ---- how many of those units with a weapon class 10 weapon ( Naval Artillery ) given 60 accuracy have rangefinder and firecontrol ratings above zero ?

Once you're done that for me go and check the rangefinder and firecontrol ratings of the costal forts and tell me what you find. Take your time with that. I don't want to hear from you again until you have an answer that isn't based on faulty theory or assumption

And yes, the 30 accuracy given to the 6 inch "naval gun" used by the insect class GB is an error. It should have the same accuracy as the 5 inch naval gun in weapon slot 188 ( 10 )

Congratulations, for all that you found two ( 2 ) really insignificant errors

Oh and when you're checking all those costal guns for RF and FC and you get to the Italian ( both Italy and RSI ) the "Art Costiera" you find with a 52 FC is wrong as well and has been corrected in the master

Don

[PanzerBob]

LOL Please don't take this in other than the humour intended!!!

""really insignificant errors""

Tell this to the poor souls of my Landing Flotilla who perished under the 9inch Guns of Gibraltar !!!

NOW I don't feel so bad, although this operation was a comedy of errors!!

Bob out

[DRG]

Originally Posted by PanzerBob

LOL Please don't take this in other than the humour intended!!!

Tell this to the poor souls of my Landing Flotilla who perished under the 9inch Guns of Gibraltar !!!

NOW I don't feel so bad, although this operation was a comedy of errors!!

Bob out

Better stay away from the shores of Italy then because the 52 Firecontrol of that one Italian emplacment is somewhat more significant than the 60 accuracy of the 9.2 inch gun

Don

[PanzerBob]

It was the 14 pen that did all my escort in, 5 pen would have made a big difference!! LOL

Bob out

[chuckfourth]

HI Don
Can I say great to be working for you on this one.
Couple of Questions before I get stuck in,
Why do you want me to check that all indirect fire class 10 Naval guns with accuracy of 60 have firecontrol and Rangefinder values of 0?

Before I look at Coastal guns could you give me some definitions? heres mine see how yours compare(as they relate to coastal guns).
Accuracy; the muzzle velocity of the gun.
Rangefinder; Value determined by the presence and use of some type of rangefinding device (0 for none?)
Firecontrol; Quality of the optics, for tanks etc but for coastal guns maybe use of bracketing by guns in the same battery, use of naval type target predictors and radars might be relevant?

Ive had a look around to give myself a bit of background on RA nd FC values before I dig into the OOB's, heres what Ive found so far thats relevant to the two guns Ive used as examples.

http://www.museumscenterhanstholm.dk...es_1945/_PRINT
"Battery Hanstholm 1, four 17 cm guns, emplaced in 1941. Manned by 1/118 MAA. Casemated, field of fire 335o to 235o. Range 28,000 yards. Two searchlights, radar set. Old German guns (1902) from ships. Eleven-meter range finder"
Now the 88 with a 1m Rangefinder gets a rangefinder value of 8 so do you think the 17cm guns 11m rangefinder value of 6 looks a little low? and Maybe the Firecontrol of 6 looks low also as the gun may have a radar in attendance as well.
Search the article with "range finder" Youll find that nearly all the largere calibre guns have a large naval type rangefinder in attendance.
For the iItalians I found this,
http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Telemeter_Range-Finder
"For naval and harbour defence purposes the Barr and Stroud range-finder is very largely used throughout the world. In Italy a Barr and Stroud instrument, with the large base of 5 metres, was in 1908 under trial for coast artillery.
So in all likelyhood the 305mm gun had at least a 5m rangefinder, again the current rangefinder value of 6 may be a little low.

One last thing before I begin, could you please tell us why AP rounds have been removed from the coastal guns in-game?
Thanks in advance Chuck.