Conceptual Balance Mod 1.4

[Turin]

Originally Posted by Wrana

Bartholomeus th Patriarch got base Encumbrance 6. Shouldn't it be somewhat less.
Hanif - Member of the Third Tier has 13 hp. Isn't it too much?
Hildegard the Heroine is armed with spear and has leather armor. Shouldn't she has something better?
Daidalos the Maker of the Labirinth has reduced stats, but no old age. Shouldn't it be vice versa?
Anthromachus has oldage 10000 and immortality. Why???
King of Legends has just 8 ap. Should be more?
Master with the Iron Crutch should be somewhat tougher..
Abasi (Machaka Hero) as an assassin seems plainly silly. Stealthy thug I think is enough.
Ebuart the Guardian of the Tree gets castle defence. Why?
Dwarf Elder for EA Vanheim gets research bonus. I'd say Forge bonus would be better.
Lug the Long-Handed doesn't have stealth as designer decision (as said by KO). I don't think it good idea to give him one. He is already good, and if you want to improve him, I'd just increase his Forge bonus!

Since this is effectively worthy heroes feedback, I'll reply:

Bartholomeus: A relic from dom2, where arch theurgs had 8 base encumbrance, so reducing it to 6 was a buff. Should be brought in line with dom3 arch theurgs, so a base of 3 would be fitting.

Member of the third tier: black priests have 12, so I don't think 13 hp is too much for a hero unit.

Hildegard: See this is what qm means when he says people don't like him removing buffs from my heroes. I made her basically a mage hero by giving her n2a2 instead of n1a1 she has in cbm. With n2a2 she obviously does not need good equipment. n2a2 is probably too good in dom3 though by giving ulm access to 2 new paths. So I'd probably boost her to n1 a2 and leave the equipment the same.

Daidalos: Again a relic from dom2. Should be modified.

Anthromachus: The problem was that it's really hard to make an army leader hero interesting/ worthwile compared to a bunch of indie commanders. His description mentions him being reputedly immortal, so I just made him immortal for real.

King of Legends: Dunno I saw no reason to change his AP. Could be modified to be the same as a generic mummy.

Master with the Iron Crutch: He has the body of a crippled old man. Why should he be tougher?

Abasi: From the description:"He quickly flayed the animal and used the skin to swim unseen past his enemies. When he had passed the guards, he found himself in the camp of the enemy king. He took his log and thrashed the camp before the enemies could react." Sounds like an assasination to me.

Ebuart: Castle def could be dropped, but it's a small buff and he is a guardian so it's somewhat fitting.

Dwarf Elder: Again a (probably necessary) nerf from qm. They had forgebonus 20 in my version, which is probably too powerful, but forgebonus 10 would be nice.

Lug: Should lose stealth per the developers intention. I had assumed it was an oversight since he has glamour and added it without giving it much thought.

[Wrana]

Originally Posted by Turin

Since this is effectively worthy heroes feedback, I'll reply:

Thanks. Continuing only on those where I still disagree:

Originally Posted by Turin

Member of the third tier: black priests have 12, so I don't think 13 hp is too much for a hero unit.

But he's an Illuminati mage, not a priest!

Originally Posted by Turin

Anthromachus: The problem was that it's really hard to make an army leader hero interesting/ worthwile compared to a bunch of indie commanders. His description mentions him being reputedly immortal, so I just made him immortal for real.

But he is free! Banner, etc., I think would be enough. And making him able to outlive Egypt, Greece and Byzntine Empire looks, er... hilarious. Immortality is possible, but I don't think it needed - and real immortality is almost unheard of in Greece mythology.

Originally Posted by Turin

Master with the Iron Crutch: He has the body of a crippled old man. Why should he be tougher?

Because he's Taoist Immortal with a title surely calling to mind some Chinese movies. You know what I'm talking about...

Originally Posted by Turin

Abasi: From the description:"He quickly flayed the animal and used the skin to swim unseen past his enemies. When he had passed the guards, he found himself in the camp of the enemy king. He took his log and thrashed the camp before the enemies could react." Sounds like an assasination to me.

And like stealthy thug to me. In any case, Machaka already has assassins aplenty. And term "assassinate" looks out of place in speech patterns of his description (somewhat stylized for tribal/Wild West story), so should be removed anyway.

Originally Posted by Turin

Ebuart: Castle def could be dropped, but it's a small buff and he is a guardian so it's somewhat fitting.

Maybe Guardian of the Tree should be better with a Patrol Bonus?

Originally Posted by Turin

Dwarf Elder: Again a (probably necessary) nerf from qm. They had forgebonus 20 in my version, which is probably too powerful, but forgebonus 10 would be nice.

Yes, I also think 20 is too big, but 10 OK (don't remember which bonuses varied ranks of Ulm Smiths have, but surely more) - and it looks more thematic for dwarves then research bonus...

[Turin]

Originally Posted by Wrana

Thanks. Continuing only on those where I still disagree:

But he's an Illuminati mage, not a priest!


But he is free! Banner, etc., I think would be enough. And making him able to outlive Egypt, Greece and Byzntine Empire looks, er... hilarious. Immortality is possible, but I don't think it needed - and real immortality is almost unheard of in Greece mythology.


Because he's Taoist Immortal with a title surely calling to mind some Chinese movies. You know what I'm talking about...


And like stealthy thug to me. In any case, Machaka already has assassins aplenty. And term "assassinate" looks out of place in speech patterns of his description (somewhat stylized for tribal/Wild West story), so should be removed anyway.

Maybe Guardian of the Tree should be better with a Patrol Bonus?

Yes, I also think 20 is too big, but 10 OK (don't remember which bonuses varied ranks of Ulm Smiths have, but surely more) - and it looks more thematic for dwarves then research bonus...

The dreaded multiquote. I'll try to reply:

Basically most of your suggestions might be somewhat more thematical, but would result in less interesting gameplay. For example patrol is pretty useless on a high level mage like the Guardian.
For the Machaka hero: His low stealth rating already makes him more of a brute force assassin and as a simple stealth thug he would be rather worthless. Would you use him instead of a simple banelord?
Regarding teh term assassinate: You are right, it does not fit. Do assassins have their own symbol now? In dom2 there was no way to tell if a unit was capable of assassinations apart from the description text.


Anthromachus: Heroes are not free, you need to take the luck scale and more importantly you would have got a useful hero if the useless one wasn't in the game. Without immortality he would be about the same as 3 indy commanders.

Regarding Lanka's multiheroes(which I missed in my earlier post): Lanka got by far the best multiheroes, so they are more of an exception. More importantly they are still far less powerful than the most powerful EA heroes like the Niefel Hero or the Hinnom guys.

[Wrana]

Originally Posted by Turin

The dreaded multiquote. I'll try to reply:
Basically most of your suggestions might be somewhat more thematical, but would result in less interesting gameplay. For example patrol is pretty useless on a high level mage like the Guardian.

It's quite useful if you want to keep a province around your castle, for example.

Originally Posted by Turin

For the Machaka hero: His low stealth rating already makes him more of a brute force assassin and as a simple stealth thug he would be rather worthless. Would you use him instead of a simple banelord?

Banelord isn't stealthy. And requires research, of course...

Originally Posted by Turin

Anthromachus: Heroes are not free, you need to take the luck scale and more importantly you would have got a useful hero if the useless one wasn't in the game. Without immortality he would be about the same as 3 indy commanders.

Do you say that luck is useless otherwise? And his description points at him useful as commander, not a thug (of course, there are not many things which make commander both useful and unique in the game right now. Still...). Of course, you can use 3 indy commanders. Or Sleeper. Or Banelord. Or GoR someone. You think this means you don't have use for a hero which has shown up??

Originally Posted by Turin

Regarding Lanka's multiheroes(which I missed in my earlier post): Lanka got by far the best multiheroes, so they are more of an exception. More importantly they are still far less powerful than the most powerful EA heroes like the Niefel Hero or the Hinnom guys.

Don't you think that Niefel is a special case? Namely, they already have something quite similar in their recruitables. Lanka, on the other hand, while being quite powerful as is, have no access to such er... nastyness. And they can use it all right! As for it being an exception - I can only say that it was what seemed the most horrible...