Crossbows vs. Longbows

[Agema]

It's also acceptable to use "fire" with respect to bows in the Oxford English Dictionary and Chambers Dictionary (two of the three most-used British dictionaries) and, I think, Merriam-Webster.

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I don't support the "because they were cheap" argument for one main reason: I don't think it adequately explains the adoption of massed bowfire as a tactic itself. I think that requires military commanders seeing how a weapon can be used and adapting to it. In the ancient and medieval eras, massed bowfire was common in Eastern militaries, but the further west into Europe you got, the more the ethos was melee: archery was generally about softening up or harassing an opponent prior to the real action. That the English used such mass deployment of archers suggests a tactical doctrine at variance with not just their own history, but the prevailing cultural habits of Western Europe. Thus they would have to have weapon to make that doctrinal change viable.

This is why I suggest the English longbow is a "battle winner" - it was a weapon you could heavily base your army on, not that it meant proper scouting, logistics, good morale, disciplined troops and decent generalship became less necessary. It could fulfill this role because weaker bows could not fire an arrow far enough and or with enough penetration, whereas crossbows that had the range and power fired too slowly. Yes, I think it *was* a superb weapon; the many victories accomplished with it should be some testament to its effectiveness.

Strong bows with huge draw weights are indeed worldwide. However, that doesn't mean it's easy and anyone plucked from the general populace could do it without practice: they would largely have been specialised hunters and the like. Producing tens of thousands of such archers available for warfare is a different matter. Longbows vary, well, yes this has been agreed. In that sense you'd be right that there was nothing very special about longbows generically. However, to do so would also mask the fact that the Welsh/English version was much more powerful than your average longbow. At which point, we'd be asking instead "Which longbow does the game mean?"

[Thierry]

Rarely is a weapon a 'war winner' by itself. In 100d war, it's not the bow by itself wich won battles. But its efficient use, i.e. trained bowman (see how it was done in england), tactics and learning how your adversary thinks (see why french knight were decimated), using the landscape (forest, protection or defending a chock point). On other set up or use, your mighty bowmen would avail to nothing.

What about a fight between horse archers and 'static' longbowmen ? Being charged on a dry plain instead of a drenched soil ? Or turned by light cavalry ?

At one time the most efficient weapon was the military pike, largely used by switzerland/swiss federation. Yet was the pike by itself a superior weapon ? It has its case of use, like most other weapons...

From what I gathered, crossbows were deadly, more accurate and dangerous than the longbow. Every european nations used them, most in countries were the noble cast was less in power. After all being killed by a rufian while you're a knight is not glorious. So many crossbow mercenary were italian (Genoa). One kind of crossbow was outlawed by the church because it was too efficient. (The one you draw/arm with your feet instead of a winch).

Funily enough, in England the rufian hero is Robin Hood, with a bow, while for the swiss I think its Guillaume/Whilelm Tell with a crossbow (In France it's Thierry La Fronde, 'La Fronde' stands for 'sling', his weapon. I don't want to restart on bow vs sling, I know nothing of slings !!! Even if I share his firstname (for reasons.. thanks TV !))

So why do see so many reports of longbow being so efficient in war ? Crossbow were far more expensive, heavy and had a far less fire rate. The troop was slower, harder to use and didn't deliver as much a punch while large archer formations managed 'saturation fire' at time. They were very efficient in some settings (castle, small troops, 'hand weapon' for travelers, etc..) Hence their use by all major european nations, england included. By they were not effecient in a masse battle, loosing to the bow.

English longbow were notorious because they were technically superior to other european countrie's bow, and mainly because the training and drafting of the archer was really above. It turned to France copying the organisation and forming 'Archers francs' companies, trained professionals. I heard that Churchill 'V' for victory hand sign comes from this time : the english archer showing that they still had their two fingers to draw the bow, while the french threatened to cut it on any prisonneer This alone shows how efficient those guys were !

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Oh by the way, can someon from (or learned in) Asia tell us how crossbow were used in asia ? In my old RPG time, we had 'repetition' crossbow It is (supposed to be) an Chinese invention ?

As for me I'm confortable with having crossbow AP and bow not. It hads variety to the game and different strategies