Wishlist: Wasting High Explosive Anti Tank Rounds

[Ramm]

What I want is actually much less, I just want the ability to not use up HEAT when firing against soft targets when I deam that the HEAT ammo is too low to waste.

[Imp]

Originally Posted by Ramm

What I want is actually much less, I just want the ability to not use up HEAT when firing against soft targets when I deam that the HEAT ammo is too low to waste.

So when you deem you want to save it set the filter, to save it before that set the range to engage soft to 12 or lower that way other units like your MMGs APCs will deal with them leaving your tank undistracted by a none threat. At 12 hexes when it opens up if the heat does not get it the mgs probably will.
Or if you just want to engage soft vehicles in a certain area set your overwatch hex this is when its usefull.

[RERomine]

Originally Posted by Ramm

What I want is actually much less, I just want the ability to not use up HEAT when firing against soft targets when I deam that the HEAT ammo is too low to waste.

You would have to clearly define what those conditions would be in such a way that would be programmable, applicable to all time periods covered by MBT, acceptable to others impacted by the change, realistic to code and fits within priorities Andy and Don have set.

You have to decide when does a soft target warrant just bullets and when do you throw everything you have at it? Consider jeep with a recoilless rifle for instance. This is a soft target, not an ATGM weapon (where another filter could be activated) and is capable of killing some tanks. Would you want to throw less than the maximum at this, considering it could kill your tank, just to preserve the last few HEAT rounds you have, in case a tank shows up? If you lose that exchange, it won't matter how many rounds you die with. The bigger question is, would other people agree with your assessment? They would be impacted also.

This all gets into a very subjective area. Personally, I believe if it can kill my tank, I need to kill it first. It doesn't matter if I use my last HEAT round to do it. I would probably be inclined to exercise other options first (small arms, MGs, tanks with more ammo, etc.) from other units before going down that road, but if it's my only option I'll take it.

Can that be coded? Yes, there isn't anything that can't be programmed. I don't believe I've ever seen Don or Andy say it can't be done. Typically, it's too difficult dealing with legacy code and in then end changes little or it falls too much into personal taste and isn't globally excepted. This is their code and they would know best.

That's my 2 cents, again. I think that puts me up to 4 cents

[Ramm]

The only thing that I'm asking for is weapons release authority for soft target engagement on all >4 HEAT stocks. The option
to say "no, don't do that". Or, to say "yes, please use the HEAT on that pesky inf squad"

Sincerely,
Andrew Nault

[Imp]

I understand what yo are saying but feel you can pretty much work round it with the filter & it would not impact my play style much.
Hardly use the filters but it is handy more so in MBT.
If tank is near to infantry reduce his range to engage them based on when RPGs are dangerous. Now they are close & becoming a threat so use everything you have with a high hit chance & not getting distracted firing at distant infantry. Yes I have not used my MGs but thats a good thing because I have saved shots incase vehicles & air turn up. This means I can protect my troops & APCs if something dangerous turns up & hes free to pinn everyone in my turn. If there are no major threats left out there meaning I don't need him to save his shoots then I have no need to save HEAT either.
Infantry are the same if you have a long range RPG like the 7 consider turning down vehicle engage range to 5 or 6 for better accuracy, less if ambushing. In my experience RPGs are rarely wasted firing at trucks as normaly other weapons have caused a bail out.
As a thought & no idea here but if I was in a tank tasked with giving infantry support & did not use everything at my disposale to do it the infantry would have every right to be pissed.

[Ramm]

Originally Posted by Imp

I understand what yo are saying but feel you can pretty much work round it with the filter & it would not impact my play style much.
Hardly use the filters but it is handy more so in MBT.
If tank is near to infantry reduce his range to engage them based on when RPGs are dangerous. Now they are close & becoming a threat so use everything you have with a high hit chance & not getting distracted firing at distant infantry. Yes I have not used my MGs but thats a good thing because I have saved shots incase vehicles & air turn up. This means I can protect my troops & APCs if something dangerous turns up & hes free to pinn everyone in my turn. If there are no major threats left out there meaning I don't need him to save his shoots then I have no need to save HEAT either.
Infantry are the same if you have a long range RPG like the 7 consider turning down vehicle engage range to 5 or 6 for better accuracy, less if ambushing. In my experience RPGs are rarely wasted firing at trucks as normaly other weapons have caused a bail out.
As a thought & no idea here but if I was in a tank tasked with giving infantry support & did not use everything at my disposale to do it the infantry would have every right to be pissed.

If I understand what you are telling me correctly, then I can control how much HEAT an AFV is using agaisnt infantry by telling him not to attack outside a certain radius.

But what about if I have an infatry squad and I don't want them wasting their RPG or bazoola rounds on other infantry? And I still want to be able to blast a tank when it comes close.

Sincerly,
Andrew Nault

[Marek_Tucan]

Originally Posted by RERomine

This all gets into a very subjective area. Personally, I believe if it can kill my tank, I need to kill it first.

Plus in real combat you'd be hard pressed to see at a distance whether that thing on the back of a jeep is a light RR, ATGM, .50 MG or just some cargo.

[Imp]

But what about if I have an infatry squad and I don't want them wasting their RPG or bazoola rounds on other infantry? And I still want to be able to blast a tank when it comes close.

Dont know never realy crops up as they tend to save last few shots, if the squads still active when they use it in 3rd or 4th slot then I am happy for them to. In rare instances I may switch it off especially if my armour is out gunned. Same goes with engineers sometimes but this is more because I have had some big disasters with splash causing friendly fire so if he has several freindly adjacent units I might warrant the situation does not need it. The one weapon I switch off regulary are long range flame units as limited shots & pretty devastaing so only let them defend with what they need & then switch on to route vissible enemy including tanks. Seriously nasty weapon.

[Ramm]

Originally Posted by Imp

Dont know never realy crops up as they tend to save last few shots, if the squads still active when they use it in 3rd or 4th slot then I am happy for them to. In rare instances I may switch it off especially if my armour is out gunned. Same goes with engineers sometimes but this is more because I have had some big disasters with splash causing friendly fire so if he has several freindly adjacent units I might warrant the situation does not need it. The one weapon I switch off regulary are long range flame units as limited shots & pretty devastaing so only let them defend with what they need & then switch on to route vissible enemy including tanks. Seriously nasty weapon.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. These are your two suggestions to allow me to save HEAT.

FOR my VEHICLES

The equitable option for HEAT ammunition expenditure reduction on AFV weapon systems is to limit AFV soft target response range to a low setting. An exact hexagon limit of the response radius to the maximum range of enemy anti-armor weapons systems.

FOR my 'Crunchies'

The equitable option for HEAT ammunition expenditure reduction on crunchie weapon systems is to disable powerful weapons until they are needed.

I'm not really sure how to use the the fire filtering feature as my game manuel that shipped with my CD does not mention it.

Thank-you Imp for replying so promptly.

Sincerely,
Andrew Nault

[Imp]

The details of using the op filter are in the online manual but yes generaly if I set it for armour & no RCL ATGM jeeps around I either limit range to close or set to ignore.
A platoon of 3 or 4 tanks if you really wanted to
Set 1 to engage Heavy armour only
1 or 2 to engage heavy armour & APCs
1 to engage everything
The choice is yours.

As I said apart from flame weapons rarely switch weapons off filter applies equally to troops.
But if you want to fire at soft targets with squads without using the RPG then switch it off.
Vs any armoured target just set the range if you want.
To be honest though most of the time I find routines work well enough but do set for certain situations.