WW2 German Mod

[Marek_Tucan]

Originally Posted by halstein

Read one story one time, when they decided to use the Me 262 as afigther, and not as a figtherbomber. Some early sucsess, and then they were grounded for lack of fuel, and their runways got bombed at nigth.

The war was prolonged so the story ended with "Dawn came early to Berlin that day".

Similar (if not same) scenario was in "Hitler's Options" compiled from various authors (Each one "option") by Macksey. One "Option" was "no delays in 262". IIRC the conclusion was that even if 262 threatened bombers it would just limit raids into Germany, not stop them (there will be a higher escorts:bomber ratio) and B-29 would be diverted to Europe, posing much more serious problem to 262 with its higher speed and altitude, plus heavier armament (no mentions of maneuvrability, but IIRC Tibbets demonstrated that at 29 op altitude he can out-maneuvre a pair of P-47s).
IIRC that scenario didn't even end with nuke, the war was protracted only by a month or so... No 262 is going to stop the Red Army, all it would manage would be forcing a different pattern in the air attrittion war in the West and after initial shock it would subside to CAP over its bases.

[Marcello]

Originally Posted by iCaMpWiThAWP

it would be cool to strafe the wermacht with sabres and fagots, are you going to add anything to the other powers? if the war had continued several projects would have been completed, like the flying pancake

No. I am just doing what I described: all the mid/late (and some early) war german AFVs for which the icons are already available, plus a basic complement of Heer infantry and artillery units for support (and some planes as well).
I might include a Panther F or II using an existing icon but that would be it as far as experimental units. Also several of the late war units will get a substantial load of APCRs but with the same stats of the WW2 rounds (Pzgr 40/43 etc.) to give them a needed boost against 50's AFVs.
All units will be available between May 1949 and October 1955. Before May 1949 the german OOB isn't available and after October 1955 the Bundeswehr units and formations come online, so it would be a bit messy to go beyond that date.

Clearly the WW2 game is better suited for "longer WW2" scenarios, but you do not have the modern toys to play as Abrams vs Jagdapanthers in that.
Plus it is not very time/effort intensive for me to make (the
WW2 games are readily available as references for stats formations etc.) is fun and there is some demand for it.

Note that I cannot make picklists at this time, so you will have to pick the forces for the AI.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Marcello

No. I am just doing what I described: all the mid/late (and some early) war german AFVs for which the icons are already available, plus a basic complement of Heer infantry and artillery units for support (and some planes as well).
I might include a Panther F or II using an existing icon but that would be it as far as experimental units. Also several of the late war units will get a substantial load of APCRs but with the same stats of the WW2 rounds (Pzgr 40/43 etc.) to give them a needed boost against 50's AFVs.
All units will be available between May 1949 and October 1955. Before May 1949 the german OOB isn't available and after October 1955 the Bundeswehr units and formations come online, so it would be a bit messy to go beyond that date.

Clearly the WW2 game is better suited for "longer WW2" scenarios, but you do not have the modern toys to play as Abrams vs Jagdapanthers in that.
Plus it is not very time/effort intensive for me to make (the
WW2 games are readily available as references for stats formations etc.) is fun and there is some demand for it.

Note that I cannot make picklists at this time, so you will have to pick the forces for the AI.

Marcello, if this is what you want to do and think it's fun then go right ahead and have fun but .

....."Abrams vs Jagdapanthers "

Iraqi T-55's have a better chance.

Have fun


Don

[Warhero]

Please, don't be so serious. In fact idea is fun (at least my opinion). It would be nice to see whole timeline 1946-200? battles with modern equipment vs. (nazi?) Germany. Result: one sided slaugter? Ok, it could be surely in "real world" but what if german scientists/developers had possibilities to develop German arsenal (not only nukes) better than they were in reality until May 1945...

[Imp]

Please, don't be so serious. In fact idea is fun (at least my opinion). It would be nice to see whole timeline 1946-200? battles with modern equipment vs. (nazi?) Germany. Result: one sided slaugter? Ok, it could be surely in "real world" but what if german scientists/developers had possibilities to develop German arsenal (not only nukes) better than they were in reality until May 1945...

Its easy to do if time dependant but why not just do in WW2 assume timeline from mid 45 every month = 3 or 6 months & build OOBs based on that sides strengths or paths taken so advances.
Make the assumption nukes are a failed project but everything else develops faster driven by the continued war & supply building is not a problem.

Germany better guns firecontrol range finder possibly rocket arty or weapons first to invent poor quality ATGMs
US Giros vision aids armour as they dont like losing men, also always have worst guns best airforce, the attack helo. Big vehicles profile seems disregarded. Claymore type weapon for vehicle infantry defence.
Russia speed & small size flame weapons. Big guns with low ammo loads
Brits Advanced armour specialist vehicles the tank slow pokes armoured cars, decent guns (probably should have giros & vision instead of US as US seemed to neglect after the war). Radar AAguns

Giving them all national characteristics so US could take current models up armour (losing speed till improve power plant) improve giros. They would improve in other areas just not as quickly.
Troops similar RPGs semiauto weapons

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by Imp

Its easy to do if time dependant but why not just do in WW2 assume timeline from mid 45 every month = 3 or 6 months & build OOBs based on that sides strengths or paths taken so advances.
Make the assumption nukes are a failed project but everything else develops faster driven by the continued war & supply building is not a problem.

Germany better guns firecontrol range finder possibly rocket arty or weapons first to invent poor quality ATGMs
US Giros vision aids armour as they dont like losing men, also always have worst guns best airforce, the attack helo. Big vehicles profile seems disregarded. Claymore type weapon for vehicle infantry defence.
Russia speed & small size flame weapons. Big guns with low ammo loads
Brits Advanced armour specialist vehicles the tank slow pokes armoured cars, decent guns (probably should have giros & vision instead of US as US seemed to neglect after the war). Radar AAguns

Giving them all national characteristics so US could take current models up armour (losing speed till improve power plant) improve giros. They would improve in other areas just not as quickly.
Troops similar RPGs semiauto weapons

Then you have to have the Nazis supplied with oil. This was something they just had very little of (converting coal to petrol was very inefficient). Once Romania was out of the Axis, no natural petroleum products.

By 1945, the gee-wizz ME262 were being towed out to the runway by horse transport due to severe fuel shortages.

So by all means have your mythical uber-panzers, about 2-4 per brigade fielded able to run due to fuel shortages, the remainder as movement 0 "tin pillboxes" presumably dragged into place the day before by horse teams. No close air support. Nothing much that needs rubber (e,g has tyres). And no trucks, motor cycles or half-tracks, just have horses and carts for the arty transport. Grunts walk.

Andy

[Imp]

Then you have to have the Nazis supplied with oil. This was something they just had very little of (converting coal to petrol was very inefficient). Once Romania was out of the Axis, no natural petroleum products.

I did say ignoring supply just putting ideas forward if they are considering doing because by the end of the war the Allies had nearly caught up. So if they are going to stand a chance of surviving even to the 50s they need upgrading Centurion comes to mind might be slow but good FC & decent armour Panther vs possibly MkIV !!!!
ISU 4? might be a problem to certainly caused me a few.

[Marcello]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

So by all means have your mythical uber-panzers, about 2-4 per brigade fielded able to run due to fuel shortages, the remainder as movement 0 "tin pillboxes" presumably dragged into place the day before by horse teams. No close air support. Nothing much that needs rubber (e,g has tyres). And no trucks, motor cycles or half-tracks, just have horses and carts for the arty transport. Grunts walk.
Andy

As I recall there was a wood burning generator setup available at least for the Panzer IV (used for crews training and such).
Coal powder was at least considered as jet fuel. That's what desperation will do to you.

[Marcello]

Originally Posted by Warhero

Please, don't be so serious. In fact idea is fun (at least my opinion). It would be nice to see whole timeline 1946-200? battles with modern equipment vs. (nazi?) Germany. Result: one sided slaugter? Ok, it could be surely in "real world" but what if german scientists/developers had possibilities to develop German arsenal (not only nukes) better than they were in reality until May 1945...

Figuring out what would actually have been produced under which circumstances would be an headache of massive proportions. In real life IIRC by 1940 or so the germans were hoping to end the war by 1942 with 50mm gun Pz III as the mainstay of the panzer divisions and some short 75mm gun Pz IV and Stug III for support.
A 45 tons Tiger lite like tank was being developed as a future replacement. That was pretty much it. Nobody was dreaming about Jagdapanthers, King Tigers etc.

[troopie]

And where are the Germans going to get more chrome? They already bought all Turkey was producing, and it wasn't enough. So with jet engines you have a choice. You chrome the insides of the engines and short your ground forces. Your gun barrels wear out faster. Then the Sovs eat you alive on the ground. Or you build all your shiny new ground toys, and short your jets. Without chrome, the life span of a Jumo Junkers OO4 engine is 45 hours, not long enough to be useful.

And this is speculation, but I wonder how many of the paper only projects were just something to keep designers busy.

troopie