.com.unity Forums
  The Official e-Store of Shrapnel Games

This Month's Specials

Raging Tiger- Save $9.00
The Star and the Crescent- Save $9.00

   







Go Back   .com.unity Forums > Shrapnel Community > Space Empires: IV & V

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old June 14th, 2002, 07:58 PM

Shadowstar Shadowstar is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 279
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Shadowstar is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Looks Like Stars is Star Dust

GalCiv looks cool, but what I am planning on doing ultimately with Starscape is allowing a player to play any part they want to in the universe.

WARNING: lots of text follows!

Each game that is started in Starscape will play on a randomly-generated "sector", a section of a galaxy surrounded by mysterious barrier-fields that prevent FTL travel, which contains thousands of realistic star systems, each with up to 30 planets or other bodies within them. I will do this by using fractal generation, where you only need a handful of numbers to generate thousands of planets, star systems, nebulae, and anomalies. The process is not exactly random, but it "appears" to be random. Only the seed numbers are randomized. Everything else is derived based on those numbers, and those numbers are what's stored on the hard drive.

For instance, multply 50 by 83 (two randomly picked numbers from 1 to 100) 10 times and take the Last two numbers from each result to get a pseudo-random value for the overall planet type of 10 planets in a star system. You only have to store the numbers 50, 83, and 10 in a universe file, yet you get 10 varied planet types from that, and the values will always be the same as long as you use those numbers. They will seem random, however. Multiply them 5000 times and you create the planet type variables for 5000 planets. You can express all of the factors that shape all the planets in your universe with 3 numbers each using this incredibly simplified Version of the method I will use. Of course, my system would be a bit more complex because we'd be generating massive 3d planet surfaces as well as planetary factors like atmosphere, minerals, etc.

Now, buildings, ruins, vehicles, and other things that would accumulate on planets over time would have to be stored individually, so that could lead to a large file in time, but in the massively-multiplayer-ubergame (MMU), as I like to call it, each game would be running on a dedicated server designed to handle all the information neccessary for the game. I am 100% certain that the details of this kind of thing will prove to be one of the project's most challenging design aspects. In a large universe, there WILL be plenty of player-created structures, as well as ships, vehicles, and other things. Look at Ultima Online. All those houses quickly filled up thier world, though the UO world wasn't incredibly huge either... But we'll cross this bridge when we come to it.

Essentially at the game's core it would be an FPS. When you joined a game, you would get to create a new character, like in an RPG. Whatever type of character you created, your first view and the natural view you will have of the universe (natural being not using any kind of interface or computer), would be an FPS. You would move around and interact with the world similar to the way standard FPS works. Emperors, however, would spend most of thier time using thier Emperor-Interface computer, which gives you a 4x-style interface by which to control your empire. However, you could turn off the interface and go for a walk if you wanted, viewing your palace or parts of your empire in full 3d (though that could be risky as some disgruntled player might try to assassinate you if your police settings in the government setup aren't very good). The first 15 people to create characters would have the option to start a new empire (I'm thinking limiting the amount of empires in a sector to 15). If you were the first player in a new game, you wouldn't be able to join an existing empire (there aren't any yet), but you could choose to start a new empire or become an independent (more on that later). You can select your race from several classic races from Starscape (including humans) or create your own race (if you are a creating an empire or becoming an independent) using a point-based race-generator. After that, you can set your individual character stats. When creating a new empire, you would set everything from society to government, laws, military, etc. all on a point-based system. Because you would be creating an empire that new players might want to join, you would want to design it to attract players (or, if you don't like people, design it to be harsh and difficult so players won't join your empire).

Essentially, all empires are populated by large numbers of population, each 100 or 1000 (or even 1,000,000!) people is represented by an NPC that changes randomly every day or so. I still haven't worked out the basics of this quite yet, but there are many ways to approach it.

NPC's are basically mindless. They are the average lunkhead you might encounter in the street. Thier lives are spent doing thier job. They have no desire to become anything more. They are the incompentent burglars, the supermarket baggers that always drop your grocieries. They are merchants, shop owners, red-shirt crewmen, grunts in the military, servants, and slaves. They represent Groups of population, so the higher the population on a planet, the more NPC's will be running around at any given time. Players can interact with them to a certain degree.

The players are the "heroes" or "villians". Thier potential is beyond the NPC's. No NPC can ever be an important character (unless it is a character created by and played by the host/gamemaster or someone given such powers by the host/gamemaster - after all, having a main character in the game run by an AI is kinda silly, though many games have done it before). However, it will also be possible for players to play a meek role. If the player wants to run a shop or farm thier whole game-lives, they can, but it will always be possible for them to rise above that and become legendary. Also, only a player can be a leader. If a leader dies or leaves office, another player can take thier place (depending on the government settings for that nation/race). If the leader is not replaced for a given amount of time (also determined by government and society settings for that nation/race), that nation/race falls into anarchy and basically all the laws and government settings for that nation are turned off, the borders dissapear from the map, etc. In short, everything owned by that empire becomes PvP territory.

Ships will be piloted either by NPC's or by players. You could have a player-captain and players for crew members - a kind of massively-multiplayer Star Trek. The ships and such would either be commissioned and ordered about by the Emperor or a military commander of some sort (a Player).

Players could even voluntarily play as "Independents", which is not part of any nation or race. This would be like deciding to play in a PvP environment. Players could own ships, facilities, etc. by purchasing them from other nations or stealing them, etc. Players could recruit independent NPC's (who are all basically just monster-type AI's that will randomly attack various players). A charismatic player could "charm", or befriend, or even threaten, an Indy NPC into joining them and use this tactic to build up an army. You'd have player-warlords roaming around on anarchic Independent planets. Perhaps even small tribes would form if players started working together in anarchic societies. Quake clans, anyone?

When joining an empire, a player would start out as just an ordinary joe, but as a player, they could work thier way to thier desired life. The emperor/leader of a nation/race determines who can fill the player-only positions within thier empire. Having players to run these various aspects of your empire would be an excellent micromanagement control, but because the game runs in real time, Emperors would usually have enough time to micromanage things if they wished. Ships would take a while to travel through hyperspace, on the order of days, and there would be plenty of menial pursuits for players to occupy themselves with if they wished, though most people would probably log out while thier ship was in transit and go either play another game for a while or actually have a life. (heh heh)

Technology is another aspect I've been working out for this MMU. I'm toying with the idea of allowing Player-Inventors. Basically, creating a whole detailed system for the design of new components. Player-Inventors would spend thier time devising and creating new technologies for thier empire to use. Alternatively, a simplified technology system would be available for Emperors who didn't have any Player-Inventors working for them.

Obviously, alot of the gaps will have to be filled in with stuff I will ultimately take from my first game, which will be a basic 4x (not this super-hybrid "MMU").

Now that I look back over all this, it all seems very OT... Sorry about that, but I've had all these ideas floating around in my head for the longest time. I didn't even mention all the ideas I already have for my initial 4x. Of course, realistically, I probably won't end up developing any of this for 6-7 years... Unless I can get some kind of big break into the computer game development industry at some point. Until then, I'll make my money licking envelopes and filling orders...
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old June 14th, 2002, 09:06 PM
Puke's Avatar

Puke Puke is offline
Lieutenant General
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: california
Posts: 2,961
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Puke is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Looks Like Stars is Star Dust

i really like the galciv take on trade goods. i guess the big question is, can the game be modified?

im guessing not, since it sounds like Online games have to be played thru stardock, and i doubt that stardock is going to support random user mods.
__________________
...the green, sticky spawn of the stars
(with apologies to H.P.L.)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old June 14th, 2002, 10:59 PM

Bman Bman is offline
Corporal
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 140
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Bman is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Looks Like Stars is Star Dust

Quote:
Originally posted by Puke:
i really like the galciv take on trade goods. i guess the big question is, can the game be modified?

im guessing not, since it sounds like Online games have to be played thru stardock, and i doubt that stardock is going to support random user mods.
Well it is only a single-player game also. My understanding is that some things will be mod-able. There is a in-game voting mechanism by which the rules can be modified if enough of the empires vote for the change. My understanding is you can create new "issues" to vote on. I'm unclear exactly how this works but it sounds interesting at least. It should be a great single-player experience.
__________________
I Rock.
Therefore I Am.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old June 15th, 2002, 07:59 AM
raynor's Avatar

raynor raynor is offline
Captain
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Texas
Posts: 830
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
raynor is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Looks Like Stars is Star Dust

I played GalCiv on OS/2 2.0 quite a long while ago and really enjoyed the game. Wow! I guess that was around 1991 or so?

OS/2 2.0 was a really, really nice operating system. It's too bad it was such a bear to program for.

Does anyone remember VGA Planets? I remember it being extremely primitive compared to SEIV. (Not that it is fair comparing a game as recent as Space Empires IV to what was probably just Version 1.0 when my friends were playing VGA Planets.) It looks like they are working on VGA Planets 4.0 nowadays.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old June 16th, 2002, 05:31 AM
Ragnarok's Avatar

Ragnarok Ragnarok is offline
General
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Indiana
Posts: 3,229
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Ragnarok is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Looks Like Stars is Star Dust

I just thought I'd post my two cents worth on this matter. I personally hope that Stars! SNG will come out soon. The game looks sway from the screens on the crisium web-site. Me and my brother played the original Stars! along time ago. We loved the game. Altough at the time we didn't have the full Version, sill don't for that matter, but we had to demo and we loved it. We played it non-stop for days, even weeks on end. I haven't played it in along time as I've been waiting for SNG to come out. Hopefully Crisium can find the development money so they can finish the game. I seriously think they should talk to Shrapnel about getting them to publish for them. Shrapnel may be small but they are still a good company (don't worry, I don't expect money for saying that ) that can publish for them. But I doubt they will talk to Shrapnel about it. So, we can only hope they get this game developed before it's too late and it gets left in the dust in the 4X genre.
Ok, that was more like 4 cents but who cares.

EDIT: Song came to my head... Another one bites the dust. haha

[ June 16, 2002, 04:32: Message edited by: Ragnarok ]
__________________
Ragnarok - Hevordian Story Thread
-------------------
I think...therefore I am confused.
They were armed. With guns, said Omari.
Canadians. With guns. And a warship. What is this world coming to?
The dreaded derelict dwelling two ton devil bunny!
Every ship can be a minesweeper... Once
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old June 17th, 2002, 03:37 PM

Bman Bman is offline
Corporal
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 140
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Bman is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Looks Like Stars is Star Dust

I think the problem is they need some cash upfront to finish the game. Smaller publishers like Shrapnel are "less able" to provide such an investment. Larger publishers either are not interested or want too much of the profit to make Mare Crisium happy. I am not sure what they need the money for. They already have superb graphics and a soundtrack (and presumably sound effects). Those tend to be the things that require money to produce. They already can program. The only thing I can think of is they still need alot of graphics work done and need to hire someone to finish it. I'll keep my fingers crossed that this game shows up someday as it looks nice.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ragnarok:
I just thought I'd post my two cents worth on this matter. I personally hope that Stars! SNG will come out soon. The game looks sway from the screens on the crisium web-site. Me and my brother played the original Stars! along time ago. We loved the game. Altough at the time we didn't have the full Version, sill don't for that matter, but we had to demo and we loved it. We played it non-stop for days, even weeks on end. I haven't played it in along time as I've been waiting for SNG to come out. Hopefully Crisium can find the development money so they can finish the game. I seriously think they should talk to Shrapnel about getting them to publish for them. Shrapnel may be small but they are still a good company (don't worry, I don't expect money for saying that ) that can publish for them. But I doubt they will talk to Shrapnel about it. So, we can only hope they get this game developed before it's too late and it gets left in the dust in the 4X genre.
Ok, that was more like 4 cents but who cares.

EDIT: Song came to my head... Another one bites the dust. haha
__________________
I Rock.
Therefore I Am.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2025, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.