Proportions 2.3 nearing completion

[Phoenix-D]

"How about Fighters of 25,000 tons?"

Considering they can run around a star system for *months* without needing to resupply at all, I'd say that's not excessively high. Mines are off, Sats might as well be space stations at that size.

Components aren't so bad; a 10kt bridge is a bit odd, but since no other control systems are needed I just lump those in there too. The DUCs are 30kt; large? Consider the fact that they never run out of ammo..

Having a 20kt storage bay store 100kt+ of stuff is a bit odd though

Phoenix-D

[ZeroAdunn]

Actually, you need to also consider that these are long trips. Some can Last several months, I would imagine each family would have a small living quarter, and then you would need extra life support too.

[Spuzzum]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
"1000 tons has always meant 1000 tons to me. ;-)"

Figure this out then. How much *damage* is 50 kilotons?

Phoenix-D

Well, while people do have me on the ship scale concerns (like a 25K ton fighter), I can answer that one -- it's the amount of damage you would need to inflict to destroy 50 kilotons' worth of an average component. ;-)

Scale-wise, the game probably would have been better off choosing tons rather than kilotons. A 10-ton mine is definitely not out of the question when you're trying to destroy a 1200-ton dreadnought, and a 25-ton fighter makes perfect sense (assuming it was built to be solid, it'd be about the size of the average city bus).

Unfortunately, at that scale, it'd be pointless to carry population, since you'd be carrying thousands rather than millions.

[Spuzzum]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
Having a 20kt storage bay store 100kt+ of stuff is a bit odd though

Not if you assume that supplies are very dense and not very bulky. The only concern is being able to tug all that weight around, which the game thankfully ignores. ;-)

[PvK]

We had a good discussion of the measurement issue in an earlier Proportions thread. Some general conclusions were and are:

1. "kT" must be taken abstractly in many cases. It can be interpreted in many ways, few of them equating directly to kilotons mass.

2. Proportions population mass of 1000kT per 1 million colonists was taken with actual mass in mind, but it does not only include the mass of the people themselves. If it did, your population would arrive nude and starving on an alien world, and would die immediately. I do NOT assume that every empire starts with super-efficient cryogenic storage (or ANY cryogenic storage). I do assume that they need clothing, food, drink, atmosphere support, shelter, tools, medicine, construction equipment, power generators, raw materials, spare parts, and a thousand other things. In sum, I'm being extremely generous with my estimate of the required mass to successfully move one million colonists to an alien world and to have them arrive in a condition where they will be able not only to survive there, but to start building a space age industrial/military colony, etc. However, see #1 above - kT is only meaningful in terms of what you can DO with it in the game.

3. There are many very goofy numbers in the default set (or Proportions) if you try to take kT literally. It's generally exaggerated by at least 1000 times, unless you imagine fighter units to be entire squadrons, etc, which is entirely reasonable. It's all a matter of interpretation.

PvK

[Spuzzum]

Well, Spuzzum the Lummox is now entirely flummoxed. You win. ;-)

[DirectorTsaarx]

Just to add some more fuel to the discussion... I always assumed kT referred to "displacement", like it does with sea-faring vessels. In which case "1 kT" means it displaces 1 kT of water. At which point it has less to do with mass than with volume. (Although one could argue that density was the important factor, but that's just mass divided by volume, so that 1 kT still isn't really mass (or even weight, which is a measure of the effect of a gravitational field on mass)).

Have fun debating!!!