Up to date beta patch info..

[Arc.Smiloid]

Better smooth this over before ugly turns to fugly...

Courageous was referring to SEIV's status relevant to other games on the market that were released in worse states than SEIV.. He was implying that it could have been worse, but this is well made up for by MM's reputation of pleasing the people.. I heard something along the lines of 17 patches for SEIII!!!

While the game may not have been perfect, at least MM is putting the blood and sweat into fixing bugs and improving the game. Many people are waiting for the game to be 'completed' before they resume playing it. And we have proof that he is working on it with the posted changes they are working on.

But here's the logic to releasing the game before it was truly ready:

Having released it to the public we all have played it, and we all suggest changes to improve the game. Now instead of Aaron and a select few beta testers giving ideas, nearly a thousand brilliant minds are giving thoughts to improving the game (The Modders especially). So it gets built properly the first time without having to go back and completely overhaul the game to get it right.
(We all basically get to be Beta Testers, and we all have a voice!)

Just be thankful MM isn't going to take all our suggestions and make us pay for an expansion pack to complete the game.
(Better not give him ideas eh?)

I am not at all ashamed I bought this game in its incompleteness. I'm happy to support MM and his hard work!

[Talenn]

Well, dollar per fun value, I've already gotten my money's worth out of this game....even if I put it on the shelf and never played it again.

I agree that it might have gone out a bit prematurely in the AI department. I think that is one critical element in any game like this where the multiplayer potential is solely a LONG term commitment to a PBEM. I'm willing to bet that most folks want to play it 'out of the box' and have a challenging game.

BUT, I'm also convinced (and using SE3 as a guideline) that MM is doing everything possible to enhancce the game experience. I much prefer it this way to the 'finished product' that has serious issues that you get from many other companies. At least with SE4 I feel like I have a voice in upcoming patches and that counts for ALOT!

I think what is necessary is a constant flow of info BOTH ways. The designer(s) gets input from the fan base and has the responsibility to reciprocate with info and patches in a timely manner. I think MM is doing an admirable job of this. I'd like to see it continue.

Here's hoping that the newest patch is coming up soon at that will at least appease the masses for the immediate future!

Talenn

[Bakunine]

Isn´t the problem that the MM want to make a AI that doesn´t cheat?
Well if he does that I think he will make history.
Until know I never played a 4X in which the AI doesn´t cheat at least in the higher levels.
I´ve seen here Posts saying that if computers can beat man in chess than it would be "easy" to beat us in a game like this.

1- Chess rules contain little number of variables. SE4 contains thousands.

2-Others say we would need a Deep Blue to run the game to make the AI really clever. Well I think that there´s nobody here, unless there´s here a really good chess player that would win a chess game in my old 48K Spectrum.

Others (very few) complain that they were fooled and bought a incomplete game. Well it was easy to avoid that.
Download the demo (a really good to evaluate tool since it´s not a tutorial, it´s not a mission, it´s a game with some limitacions) and try it.

Being a somekind of BetaTester isn't in my wishes but to many who bought the game is. So it's a think that everyone should respect.

I only started contact with SE series in SE4 and by seeing that MM released the game earlier by request of the long time Users only show the respect he as for the long time supporters (one think that is very rare). In a purely marketing and bussiness way of view it would be much more profitable to wait a few months and launch a much more perfect game.

[Jubala]

For those who think SE4 wasn't finished on release, go buy Braveheart and you'll see unfinished in all it's glory. The game always crashed at a certain ingame date (don't remember how many turns, but not many, between 30 and 50 I think), half the features advertised on the box didn't work or where not even there to not work. The one(two?) patch(es?) released didn't even fix anything, it(they?) simply disabled the features that didn't work resulting in an even more incomplete game. And the AI was so poor that it wasn't much of a challenge to beat the game before it chrashed. I never did it myself as I was disgusted by the frequent crashes but some dedicated fans on the Boards reported doing it. Eventually even they gave up and the board turned into very ugly bash the developer rants. That game is a prime example of creating major hype about a game, then releasing a piss poor product to an unsuspecting public that bought it hook line and sinker while the developers took their money and ran.

Now compare the above with SE4. I rest my case.

[Seawolf]

A point that has been missed by all I think in this thread the reason why MM puts out the SE series is to make money!. How much do you think it cost to burn and mail the CD's? Don't you think that Aaron and the others have bills to be paid? I agree that a game should be complet but hey there hasn't been any game that didn't need clarification or improvement in my 20 + years of gamming.

Also MM stated that the game was still evolving and since they are working on it and are making patches for it means in the end, at no additional cost by the way, you will have a complete game.

Since this is a democracy, well it was til this election that is, you can voice your opinion. I suggest that you continure to say what is wrong with it so we can get it fixed faster.

P.S Since they sold so many I guess your view i sin the minority

Thus endth the sermon

------------------
Seawolf on the prowl

[gbraley]

On the one hand, those pointing out that most games need patches these days and that MM released the game early "under pressure" from their fans understandably defend MM.

However, you can hardly fault those that paid for the game expecting it to be complete. Saying "we'll fix it later" might, MIGHT be acceptible for hardware compatability issues, but no software product should be released as "gold" when it is not complete. The fact that "everyone else is doing it" is hardly an excuse. Had it been released as an AI-less multiplayer game, or as a pay-to-play beta Version, noone would be complaining, they'd just be whining for an AI or for the final Version respectively. I've done beta testing myself (Europa Universalis is the latest, if anyone cares), and I know about the pressures on developers to get a product to market.

I guess my point is that, as good as SEIV is, it was clearly not really ready for release. Those who are offended by this are quite justified to do some complaining; those who are trying to defend MM in this shouldn't take it personally! Of course, flaming each other is just dumb, no matter what side you are taking -- accomplishes nothing but to feed childlike egos.

Scott

[Wabbit]

Does anyone read review or message Boards before ever purchasing things? It took 5 minutes of reading to find out that yes there are things that are still being worked on (Fixes and development). But in the same time I knew this was the game for me to buy.
Easily customizable
A true 4X game without all the glitz
Did I mention no glitz!! Most of the time kills gameplay
A great Fan community
Great support from the Developer
Delphi! nuff said there!
Praying the new patch comes out soon... wanna play with the new changes!