Iraqi errors report - Part 2

[Marcello]

Unit 68: BMP-2
1) It should be be reclassed as class 127 Gun APC (Tracked)
2) Initial availability date to be moved back to 1/1987
I have seen no indication that the relatively scarce BMP-2s were made available to the regular army in 2000. With the above changes it could play the role of the antipersonnel variant of unit 524.

Unit 268 RPG-7 Team
A clone of it should be added with the RKG-3M in slot 3 deleted.

Unit 447: RG Sappers
A clone of it should be added with the the flamethrower in slot 3 replaced by weapon n.13 7.62mm PKM LMG

Formation 15: Amphib Tank Pl

Final availability date should be changed to 4/2003. There were not amphibious tank left in service past that date. A few T-55/72/Type 69 were recovered and put back in service but no PT-76.
The new iraqi military has shown no interest in amphibious tanks.

[Marcello]

Some changes to the tanks of the T-55 series, mostly tweaks to bring them up to specs.

There will be a similar post about the T-72s some time down the road plus an other two-three posts about miscellaneous stuff. With those this OOB should be pretty much covered in its essentials.
I will still write stuff but it is going to be more about nice to have things or if something new comes out on the current iraqi rearmament. Otherwise the basics will have been covered.

Unit 12: Type 69-II
I suggest a change in loadout
24 HE, 5 AP, 3 Sabot and 12 HEAT,. The tank is supposed to be able to carry 44 rounds according to chinese sources, given that the T-55 can carry 43 rounds that seems reasonable. The above mix would be more in line with known combat loads than a pure HE/HEAT loadout.


Unit 16: T-54B
It should be changed to a T-54A as that was the first version of T-54 supplied. That could be accomplished with the following modifications:
1)name changed to T-54A
2)reduction in stabilizer rating to 1 (see unit 7 T-54A in the russian OOB).
3)Replacing weapon n. 53 7.62 SGMT AAMG with weapon n. 54 12.7 DShK AAMG
Icon could also be changed to n. 1466 or n.712, as those two are pretty much what the iraqis used for camo most of the time: plain desert tan or desert tan with green stripes.

Unit 17-18-580 : T-54B
Some changes to bring them up to specs:
1) FC ratings should be increased from 3 to 5
(see unit 8 T-54B in the russian OOB).
2) Weapon 53 7.62 SGMT AAMG should be replaced with weapon n. 54 12.7 DShK AAMG

Unit 18 could have its icon changed to n. 1466 or n.712, as those two icons are pretty much what the iraqis used for camo most of the time: plain desert tan or desert tan with green stripes.
Also HEAT load should be reduced from 12 to 8 and HE load increased to 16, as that would be more in line with known combat loads.

Unit 19-615: T-55
It should have a BMG, weapon n. 61, added in slot 4.
Basic T-55 retained the BMG, which was deleted in T-54A (See unit 9 of the russian OOB, also confirmed by other sources such as tank-net.org).

Units 20-581-616-619: T-55A
FC rating should be increased to 7 from current 5. (See unit 10 of the russian OOB).

Unit 21: T-55 Enigma
Some changes that could be implemented:
1) Rename it “Tyepe 69 Enigma”
2) the BMG in slot 4 should be deleted, as the MG hole would be covered by the appliquè armor panels anyway.


Source: http://data.primeportal.net

3) Weapon 53 7.62 SGMT AAMG in slot 3 should be replaced by weapon 54 12.7 DShK AAMG.
4) Range finder value should be increased to 22, consistent with Type 69 II values.
5) Night vision rating should be reduced to 20.

The Enigma upgrade as fielded consisted only of the armor modules and better radios. No fire control upgrades or anything else beyond what the tank already had. It was applied indifferently to T-55 and Type 69 II, as well others T-54 derivates which were then parcelled out as command tanks.

Alternatively the name and RF ratings could be left as they are and the FC rating reduced to 7 to bring it line with
T-55A ratings, but I imagine the Type 69 II based variant would be more interesting for wargaming purposes.

Some changes for the tank guns

weapon 70 100mm D10T 55
HEAT penetration should be reduced from 38 to 28
It would represent BR-412B AP and BK-5 HEAT combination

weapon 71 100mm D10T 60
AP penetration should be reduced from 21 to 19
It would represent BR-412B AP and BK-5M HEAT combination

weapon 72 100mm D10T 69
Sabot penetration should be increased to 30 and Sabot Range to 90
It would represent BR-412D AP, BK-5M HEAT and BM-8 APDS combination.

Weaponn n. 132 100mm D10S 44 and weapon n. 130 100mm D10T 77 can be left in its current form for the time being.

I suggested the above changes on the basis of ammunition actually used by the iraqis
1) BR-412 AP round
2) BR-412B AP round
3) BR-412D AP round
4) BM-8 APDS
5) BK-5M HEAT
6) M69 HEAT
7) Clones of the above, HE.

Also it seems likely
8) BM-21 APFSDS (in limited quantities)
9) BK-5 or similar vintage, expended by 2003, HEAT

Sources for the above are mainly ordnance disposal reports and tank-net.org.

[Marcello]

Basic T-55 retained the BMG, which was deleted in T-54A

That should have been T-55A instead of T-54A.
The basic T-55 was the only main varian without AAMG, as both the previous T-54s variants and the following T-55A had them (the Dshk had ceased to be considered useful against modern aircrafts and helicopters were not yet considered a major threat, plus the whole NBC issues).

[Marcello]

Unit 992 UAZ Jeep from russian OOB could be added.
1/1975-12/2020 as availability dates.



Source: www.armyrecognition.com

Units 345-570: SU-100
They should be rearmed with weapon 54 12.7 DShK AAMG instead of weapon 56 14.5 KPV AAMG in slot 2.

Units 346-571: SU-100M
1) Stabilizer rating should be reduced to 0, SU-100s did not get stabilizers in the postwar upgrades
(Source tank-net.org ). Being assault guns stabilizer would have been a very odd choice for an upgrade anyway.
2) They should be rearmed with weapon 54 12.7 DShK AAMG instead of weapon 56 14.5 KPV AAMG in slot 2.
3) FC rating could be reduced to 3, there is no mention that sights were upgraded.

Unit 284 Cascavel III
A clone of it should be added with 1/2008-12/2020 as availability dates.
Source: http://www.blackanthem.com/News/scit...les13820.shtml

Units 785-786-787-788-789: Foreign Troops
They could be renamed “Jihadist Team”

Formation 173: SP-SAM Battery
Formation 175: SP-SAM Platoon
Unit 374: SA-6 Kub
Unit 379: AMX-30 Roland
Final availability date for all of the above should be changed to 4/2003. As I noted in the past SP SAMs went out of service in 2003, with captured ones being scrapped.

A new SP-SAM Section using two units 46 Avenger HMMWV as template and with 1/2011-12/2020 as availability dates should be introduced instead. Avengers are used in sections of two.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita.../44-44/Ch1.htm

Unit 215: M728 CEV
It should be deleted.
There were, until last year, talks about aquiring a very large stock of M60s from Greece and/or others suppliers which were getting rid of them. It was at least within the real of the possible that some M728s might have been thrown in as well.
The M60 option would have made some sense but the iraqis seem to have settled for a slower build up of an Abrams based tank force, supplemented by T-72s and some residual T-55/Type 69. It is still possible that some M60s might be purchased to boost numbers (iraqi procurement is very fluid at the moment) so units 9-10 can be left but a rare, specialized and harder to mantain vehicle like the M728 will not be included in all likelyhood. They already have in service or on order several vehicles performing engineering functions (BREMs, M88s etc.).

[Marcello]

Another post on miscellaneous stuff.
Next one will be on the T-72s as stated previously.

1) Formation 185: SP-ATGM Pl (I mentioned previously it should get an additional unit per platoon as that was the organization according to The Iraqi Army: Organization and Tactics)
2) Formation 186: SP-ATGM Section
3) Unit 228: VCR/TT HOT
Final availability date for all of the above should be changed to 4/2003.

A new SP-ATGM Section using two units 604 M901 ITV as template and with 1/2011-12/2020 as availability dates should be introduced instead.

Unit 265 M1045 TOW HMMWV from US OOB should be added.
It would be armed with weapon n. 155 Improved TOW.
1/2011-12/2020as availability dates.
So far the new iraqi has not aquired any ATGM (save some Hellfire for aircraft use) and it is not known what ATGM will be aquired. However huge numbers of HMMWVs are being handed down to the iraqi army. Even if eventually Milan or something else is bought HMMWV would probably be still used as launching platforms anyway so it could be rearmed later if necessary.

Unit 750: It could be put back in. There were last year talks about purchasing some unspecified european ATGM but so far nothing has materialized. Had there been an emergency, say an iranian attack (pretty far fetched actually but still...) TOWs would have likely been the ATGM provided. Further it is at least possible that some will be handed down as the US withdraw, as that seem the intent with a lot of US equipment.

Unit 985 BM-14-16
1) Weapon n. 202 140mm Rocket should be replaced with weapon n. 215 107mm Rocket
2) It should be renamed “107mm MRL” or something like that.
107mm rockets fired from improvised launchers were the basic staple of insurgents rocket attacks. 140mm rockets haven’t turned up in Iraq (not in significant quantities at any rate, compared to 107mm ones)

Source: ordnace disposal reports and insurgent arms caches content descriptions.

Unit 115 from the US OOB UH-1D Huey should be added.
Availability dates 3/2005-12/2020
Armament should be changed to weapon n. 13 7.62mm PKM LMG



Sources:
http://www.milavia.net/airforces/iraq/iqaf.htm
http://www.mnf-iraq.com/index.php?op...369&Itemid=128

Unit 314: OT-64 SKOT-2A
Initial availability date should be changed to 1/1976.
While SIPRI does indeed list 1981 as delivery date I have recently found out about photographic evidence that it was already used in quantity at the very beginning of the Iran Iraq War and had been available for some time before. Exact year of first delivery is unclear but 1976 or so should be a good approximation, the vehicles were supplied during the 70’s apparently. I guess that the batch supplied in 1981 was for replacement/supplement rather than first delivery.

Unit 359: Palmaria
1) Ammo load should be reduced to 30 HE rounds and no AP ones
2) Speed should be decreased from 32, way too high for such a vehicle, to 20 (quoted max speed is around 60km/h).
3) Crew could be increased from four to five
4) Hull front and hull side armor should be cut by half at least.

These changes would also apply to the following units
Unit n. 360 Palmaria in OOB 40 Libya
Unit n. 373 Palmaria in OOB 61 Nigeria

Sources:
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/palmaria.htm
Brassey’s enciclopedia of land forces and warfare by Franklin D. Margiotta

Unit 831: Vulcan AA Gun
It could be deleted.
The US phased out its last ones in 1994 with only a small number left by that date according to Jane’s, there are not significant numbers left available that could be supplied to Iraq. Further, it was a limited usefulness weapon even when it was in its prime, it is questionable the iraqis would be interested in getting them now.
Some ZU-23 and similar are alredy available for whatever limited antiaircraft guns needs may be (mostly fire support against ground targets).

[Marcello]

no AP ones

Note: that would apply to Iraq mainly. I do not know if Libya or Nigeria ever got cluster rounds.

[Marcello]

T-62 and T-72

Here is the post on the T-72 (T-62 included as well). Mostly modifications to bring their stats on par with the latest version of the game and to match what is known about iraqi T-72s.
With this I have covered the most importan stuff. The posts that will follow are only nice to have if you can spare the time.


Unit 25: T-62A
1) FC should be changed to 7, range finder to 8 and stabiliser to 2.
2) Speed should be decreased to 18
3) Name should be changed to T-62
(see unit n.18 T-62 in russian OOB for reference)

Unit 213: T-62M KMT-5
1) FC should be changed to 7, range finder to 8 and stabiliser to 2.(see unit n.18 T-62 in russian OOB for reference)
2) Speed should be decreased to 16 or similar.

Unit 29-30: T-72A
They should be overwritten with unit 31 T-72 from the russian OOB.
1) One as class 13 “Medium Tank”. Availability dates 1/1979-12/1991
2) One as class 59 “MBT”. Availability dates 1/1987-12/1996
Weapon n.106 could be the primary armament of both.

Unit 31: T-72G
1) Fire control rating should be reduced to 20 from current 25
2) It could be renamed T-72M.
3) Loadout should be changed to 15 HE 14 Sabot 10 HEAT (early T-72M carried 39 rounds)

Unit 33: T-72G
1) Fire control rating should be reduced to 20 from current 25 (see unit 648 T-72M as reference)
2) Final availability date should be extended to 4/2003
3) It could be renamed T-72M
4) Hull front armor should be increased to 34 Steel and 45 HEAT values (as in unit 648 T-72M)
5) Loadout should be changed to 20 HE 14 Sabot 10 HEAT (later T-72M carried 44 rounds)

Unit 40: T-72G
1) Fire control rating should be reduced to 20 from current 25 (see unit 648 T-72M as reference)
2) It should be rearmed with weapon 101 125mm D81T 76
3) Hull front armor should be increased to 34 Steel and 45 HEAT values (as unit 648 T-72M)
4) Loadout could be changed to 32 HE 6 Sabot 6 HEAT (to provide an HE heavy counterpart to unit 33)
5) It should be renamed T-72M

Units 32-35-39: T-72QM1
They should be renationalized or otherwise made unavailable. In their place (one of the could be overwritten for example) a clone of unit 649 T-72M1 should be created with the following changes:
1) Class 59 “MBT”
2) Weapon n. 101 125mm D81T 76 as main gun
3) Combat load 20 HE 14 Sabot 10 HEAT
4) 1/1987-4/2003 as availability dates


Units 36-38: Assad Babyl
These were locally built T-72M1 with some small modifications.
I suggest to overwrite both of them with two clones of unit 649 T-72M1 with the following changes.

Unit 36
1) Class 59 “MBT”
2) Weapon n. 101 125mm D81T 76 as main gun
3) Combat load 20 HE 14 Sabot 10 HEAT
4) 1/1988-4/2003 as availability dates
5) Turret front armor could be increased to 46 Steel and 58 HEAT

Unit 38
1) Class 59 “MBT”
2) Weapon n. 158 125mm D81T 88 as main gun
3) Combat load 20 HE 14 Sabot 10 HEAT
4) 1/1996-4/2003 as availability dates
5) Turret front armor could be increased to 46 Steel and 58 HEAT

Some changes to T-72 main guns.

Weapon 101: 125mm D81T 76
HEAT penetration should be reduced from 51 to 48, consistent with BK-14M.
This gun woul represent the combination of BM-15 APFSDS and BK-14M HEAT which had been available since the Iran Iraq War and were the standard service rounds by the time of OIF.

Weapon 106: 125mm D81T 70
1) It should be renamed 125mm D81T 62
2) HEAT Penetration should be reduced from 48 to 42, consistent with BK-12 HEAT
3) Sabot penetration should be increased somewhat, 37 could be a good value
This gun would represent the combination of BM-9 APFSDS and BK-12 HEAT which were the first service rounds for the T-72. Iraqi tanks still used some BM-9 in 1991.

Weapon 102: 125mm D81T 83
1) It should be renamed 125mm D81T 68
2) HEAT penetration should be reduced from 51 to 48, consistent with BK-14M
3) Sabot penetration should be decreased from 54 to say 39 or so
This gun would represent the combination of BM-12 APFSDS and BK-14M HEAT. Iraqi tanks still used some BM-12 in 1991

Weapon 158: 125mm D81T 88
HEAT Penetration to be reduced from 68 to 65
This gun could represent the combination of BM-42 APFSDS and BK-29 HEAT which were aquired in very limited numbers between the Gulf War and OIF. These rounds are also what the iraqis could buy if they wanted something better than BM-15/BK-14M but still at relatively cheap prices, as the russians have plenty of them in stocks and are willing to sell them.

The older BM-9 and BM-12 had been remove from service either by shooting during training or otherwise disposed of between 1991 and 2003. Extremely small quantities of BM-42 and BK-29 had been imported in the meantime.

Source: ordnance disposal reports
http://www.russianarmor.info/
http://www.tank-net.org/

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Marcello

Some changes for the tank guns

weapon 70 100mm D10T 55
HEAT penetration should be reduced from 38 to 28
It would represent BR-412B AP and BK-5 HEAT combination

weapon 71 100mm D10T 60
AP penetration should be reduced from 21 to 19
It would represent BR-412B AP and BK-5M HEAT combination

weapon 72 100mm D10T 69
Sabot penetration should be increased to 30 and Sabot Range to 90
It would represent BR-412D AP, BK-5M HEAT and BM-8 APDS combination.

Marcello, do you have any idea when BR-412B APBC and BR-412 APCBC were first produced and distributed ? All I've found so far is a vague reference to a time period right after WW2. In game terms the Pen for BR-412B should be 18 ( I have a number of weapons being adjusted in this next patch and this just happens to be one of them ) , BR-412"D" APCBC should be 22 but It would be helpful if anyone knows then these things started being issued. Stock BR-412 would be 16 pen in game based on detailed info I found on it's performance and the B and D versions at 500, 1000, 1500, 2000 and 3000 yards and that means there will be adjustments to SPWW2 as well

For HEAT I have 100mm BK-5M with 380mm Pen issued " in mid 50's " but I also have source that says BK-5M was issued in 1960. The round before that I have as BK-354M HEAT with 280mm pen but I've also seen that described as BK-5., If anyone knows when BK-5M was first issued that would be helpful

As for BM-8 APDS I have that showing up in 1968 with penetration rated between 257 mm and 264 @ 1km and in game terms we get a closer representation with a 31 pen and 90 range
Since everyone looks for inconsistencies that may exist between one weapon in other OOBs and given that this gun is used in dozens of OOB's There are adjustments that need to be done in quite a few plus SPww2.

However it would be helpful to know just when the BR-412D started making an appearance.

Don

[Marcello]

Originally Posted by DRG

Marcello, do you have any idea when BR-412B APBC and BR-412 APCBC were first produced and distributed ? All I've found so far is a vague reference to a time period right after WW2.

I asked the same question a long time ago. The best answer I got was the following.

BR-412B: 1945
BR-412D: with one of the T-54 models, perhaps model 1951 circa 1951-1952.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Marcello

I asked the same question a long time ago. The best answer I got was the following.

BR-412B: 1945
BR-412D: with one of the T-54 models, perhaps model 1951 circa 1951-1952.

OK, Thanks. That does, sort of, fall in line with what little info I had found. It does mean if the BR-412D APCBC was available in the early 50's the penetration in game terms for AP would be 22

Don