Experimental Game - Outofthelab

[kianduatha]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

supplemental to 1, making fortresses/labs more expensive will stop mage production facility spamming. Actually, making fortresses cheaper and labs much more expensive will make unit recruitment centers cheaper while making mage recruitment centers more expensive.

Say 1/2 price fortresses, triple price labs (and no nation gets cheap labs). At 400/fortress and 1500/lab, players might think twice before building multiple sites for recruiting mages.

The only problem with this idea is that some casters/researchers don't require a lab. Of course you could make them cost more. But if you're doing that, why not just make every caster cost more, if all you're worried about is the proportion of mages to normal troops?

I think the real thing we're trying to fix here is the "fifty mages sitting around in your capital" issue. The point is that you'll only buy a mage if you have a particular use for them.

Take Sauromatia as an example. You won't have 50 enaries if you aren't going to research with them. It's just not practical. You'll have 3, maybe, for remote site-searching. Because there's no point making a bunch of them if they're just sitting there useless for half the game. Better to spam castles with the money, make more troops, then once research has ramped up to the point where they're actually useful, you'll start cranking out combat mages. But you might not even tech to Nether Darts at all under this mod--because you don't already have the mages sitting there.

[Illuminated One]

I've released a first version of the mod for SP games/testing.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43679

There are a few differences in research strength between the mod and the table here, the values in the mod are the correct ones, except for some nations that might get a penalized a bit (Marverni, Arco, Ctis, Ermor).
For the early expansion remember - you have spells. This helps to expand quickly despite the settings. For example Kailasa. Get a bless, research alt 3 first turn, alchemize an earth gem to buy a Yaksha and own.



@Squirrelloid

kianduatha is correct. The main goal is to avoid the growth of micro, which is intolerable imo.
1) Increasing gold goes against that.
2 and the labs suggestion) Well, I had some ideas to limit recruitment centers but cap-only is to much as it will practically remove 100s of mages from the game. It will probably mean that recruitment centers can only be built in certain provinces. Not yet there, though.

I doubt thought that all in all it will increase the mage to troop ratio.
In vanilla sure, but there a mage is also a researcher, although if it does I'm not going to fix that with this first part of the full mod.

[Squirrelloid]

Does anyone else see a contradiction between these two statements?

Originally Posted by Illuminated One

For the early expansion remember - you have spells. This helps to expand quickly despite the settings. For example Kailasa. Get a bless, research alt 3 first turn, alchemize an earth gem to buy a Yaksha and own.

I doubt thought that all in all it will increase the mage to troop ratio.

Statement 1: You don't need armies to play the game.
Statement 2: mage:troop ratio will stay constant between this and normal play.

But wait, we already concluded we don't need *any* troops. How many normal games do you know of that play like that?

Yes, you don't recruit tons of crappy research mages. You recruit as many top tier mages as you can afford and own independents/other players with nothing but pure magery or SC bad-assery. This actually sounds like more micro rather than less.

But as I said, i'm tentatively interested as C'tis. I'll even make a pre-game prediction: I will never buy a single non-mage (barring an indie commander or two for castle-building)

[Illuminated One]

The statement that Kailasa can expand very effectively without troops does neither entail, that
a) Kailasa can't expand better with troops
b) Kailasa won't need troops later in the game
c) Other nations don't need armies

Therefore I fail to see where your statement 1 comes from.

Besides there is no contradiction between statement 1 and 2.
Only that you don't need something doesn't mean that you don't want it.

I'm fine with any discussion or critique (and some of your comments have already been taken aboard) but I don't like it if someone tries to get all smartass on me. Sorry if I interpreted that into your post.

Most of the things in this mod are in for a reason. Yep, it will change a lot, and it might go against my intention. But I don't like to jump to conclusions especially in a game like dominions and will wait until I see it work out before doing radical changes.
I don't believe in the less money=more mages argument. If you end up in a game with less provinces do you conquer your equally small neighbour only with mages? In any case what do you propose? More money? For having less micro?

SCs will be more powerful, yes, but totally overpowered? Let's see.