Fire vs. Death heavy bless

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by Frozen Lama

K- just go and try a F9W9 bless rush. on turn 3, it is entirely possible to take 2 provs with jags. on turn 4, you can take 3, unless you happen to have a capital with only 2 neighbors. you don't circle you cap first of course. if you have 4 neighbor provs, turn 5 your taking 4 provs. just go try it. its insane to think a bless rush nation won't take 2 provs a turn until turn 7

Connections isn't sufficient. I mean, unless jags are far more awesome than i think they are, a bloodhenge druid province will stop you cold. As will any number of other nasty independents. So if you see nothing but tribal warriors and militia/archer/infantry combinations, sure, i believe you. And while K might underestimate the speed a little, i think you vastly overestimate based on the assumption 1 turns production of jaguars can take *any* indie province.

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

Connections isn't sufficient. I mean, unless jags are far more awesome than i think they are, a bloodhenge druid province will stop you cold. As will any number of other nasty independents. So if you see nothing but tribal warriors and militia/archer/infantry combinations, sure, i believe you. And while K might underestimate the speed a little, i think you vastly overestimate based on the assumption 1 turns production of jaguars can take *any* indie province.

Squirrel, both you and K are *very* wrong. Jags are just as good as I say they are.
jags laugh at cavs, cat, elephants.

Its the *slingers* you worry about not the elephants. slingers and archers have a tendency to kill your blessing cleric about one time in three.

I'm not *assuming* anything - the last 4 games I have played as mictlan the low was 38 territories by the end of year 2. High was 50 something.

Sure BHD might cause you to leap frog around. But you *want* to leap frog. The idea is capture as many territories as possible and fill in later.

[K]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

Squirrel, both you and K are *very* wrong.
jags laugh at cavs, cat, elephants.

Its the *slingers* you worry about not the elephants. slingers and archers have a tendency to kill your blessing cleric about one time in three.

I'm not *assuming* anything - the last 4 games I have played as mictlan the low was 38 territories by the end of year 2.

But were we talking specifically about Mictlan? They aren't the only Bless nation here, and they play a lot differently from Neifleheim or Lanka or one of the Vans (to name a few of the nations who can field a viable Bless Rush).

And how many provinces in this map? How many players?

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by K

But were we talking specifically about Mictlan? They aren't the only Bless nation here, and they play a lot differently from Neifleheim or Lanka or one of the Vans (to name a few of the nations who can field a viable Bless Rush).

And how many provinces in this map? How many players?

You said bless rushes aren't a viable strategy. I said I routinely expect to take 48ish by the end of year two with Mictlan (Ea/LA) or Lanka.

So yes, I specifically said mictlan and lanka. Blesses on xheims are for the most part not optimal.

Niefle has a bless strategy - and its a powerful one - but you can't call it a bless rush. Niefles strategy relies on a lack of attrition, and SC's to win. Fun - but not a bless rush. Plus the problem with his bless is capitol dependency - there are some very easy counters.

As for #of players - I dont care. ter/player - I don't care. Anything within the realm of normal play is fine by me. Stronger indie settings make bless nations work better. Smaller maps probably help bless nations more on average.

Map geography matters - lots of choke points makes for a very static game - not suitable to bless rushes.