Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Game on!

[DrPraetorious]

I was going to say, a number of these nations are missing expanded pretender choices, would people mind if I added them?

Nehekara and Bretonnia both have extensive options presumably picked out consciously.

My suggested addition list (not meant to complete):

Skaven has a national pretender (although he isn't the Great Horned Rat, which he should be), but still: Lord of the Summer Plague, Lord of Rebirth, Ageless Olm, Monolith, Carrion Dragon, Dracolich, Destroyer of Worlds.

Itza should be allowed to get: Phoenix, Mother of Serpents, Mother of Monsters, Sphinx, Glyph, Ageless Olm, Risen Oracle.

Chaos Undivided should be allowed to get: Lord of the Summer Plague, Son of Fenrir, Drakaina, Moloch, Lady of Love, Mother of Monsters, Deva, Great Black Bull, Lord of the Wild, Lord of War, Forge Lord, Destroyer of Worlds, Nataraja.

Ogre Kingdoms should be allowed to get: Son of Niefel, Lord of Rebirth, Skratti, Bog Mummy, Monolith, Great Mother, Lord of Fertility, Father of Winters, Virtue.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by DrPraetorious

I was going to say, a number of these nations are missing expanded pretender choices, would people mind if I added them?

Nehekara and Bretonnia both have extensive options presumably picked out consciously.

My suggested addition list (not meant to complete):

Skaven has a national pretender (although he isn't the Great Horned Rat, which he should be), but still: Lord of the Summer Plague, Lord of Rebirth, Ageless Olm, Monolith, Carrion Dragon, Dracolich, Destroyer of Worlds.

Itza should be allowed to get: Phoenix, Mother of Serpents, Mother of Monsters, Sphinx, Glyph, Ageless Olm, Risen Oracle.

Chaos Undivided should be allowed to get: Lord of the Summer Plague, Son of Fenrir, Drakaina, Moloch, Lady of Love, Mother of Monsters, Deva, Great Black Bull, Lord of the Wild, Lord of War, Forge Lord, Destroyer of Worlds, Nataraja.

Ogre Kingdoms should be allowed to get: Son of Niefel, Lord of Rebirth, Skratti, Bog Mummy, Monolith, Great Mother, Lord of Fertility, Father of Winters, Virtue.

I was honestly wondering about the lack of Moloch for Chaos.

I wouldn't mind those additions at all, although the agartha specific pretenders seem slightly weird for Agartha... (So does the lady of love without some reflavoring for Chaos.)

[Sombre]

Originally Posted by DrPraetorious

Skaven has a national pretender (although he isn't the Great Horned Rat, which he should be), but still: Lord of the Summer Plague, Lord of Rebirth, Ageless Olm, Monolith, Carrion Dragon, Dracolich, Destroyer of Worlds.

Itza should be allowed to get: Phoenix, Mother of Serpents, Mother of Monsters, Sphinx, Glyph, Ageless Olm, Risen Oracle.

Ogre Kingdoms should be allowed to get: Son of Niefel, Lord of Rebirth, Skratti, Bog Mummy, Monolith, Great Mother, Lord of Fertility, Father of Winters, Virtue.

There are several issues why the Great Horned Rat isn't in the mod. First and most important, Warhammer gods aren't really the same thing as pretenders. They're actual gods, not just big things with lots of magic. Secondly I don't really like doing big graphics and since verminlords are in his image, I guess he'd be a huge scaled up one of those. Though he is mentioned to take thousands of unspeakable forms, it's not like any of them are really depicted anywhere, because he's a proper God, with the whole omnipotent but not physically present thing going on. Also I don't like doing pretenders more generally.

I don't agree with most of those you list. I mean Virtue for Ogre Kingdoms? What? Risen Oracle for Itza?

[Burnsaber]

I tested the complimation mod real quick and found no clashes. Even Bretons battle summons seem to work as intented. Nice job , Dr.P!

As for the additional pretender choices, I'd leave them out for now. If you want to see them, I'd suggest to make a case for it in the mod thread. IMHO, at least chaos and Ogres could use some additional vanilla pretender choices. But adding/testing them isn't the point of this game.

Amonchakad was apparently designing another warhammer mod game and apparently has a nice complimation of changes to the Chaos mod to make it more thematic & balanced. I'll look into his ideas and implemet those me and squirreloid see necessary.

I've generated a nice looking and somwhat balanced map with 84 land and 4 sea provinces. I'll release it as soon as I manage to give it the "NI" treatment.

As for your nice idea Sombre, yeah. I'll create a duolicate game once the mod and map are finalized.

If things go even somewhat as planned, the game will likely be up on the llamaserver by Sunday (sorry, but I'm pretty busy with school before weekend).

[DrPraetorious]

Re: Risen Oracle for Slaan. I was using it as a "placeholder" for a Slaan Lich. It seemed closer than the saurolich.

Re: Virtue for Ogre Kingdoms. Yes, okay, that was a bit of a joke .

I'm going to manage with a vanilla pretender, I suppose.

[Burnsaber]

I uploaded the map to the first post.

[DrPraetorious]

*bump*

Are we playing? If so, post whatever modifications you've made to the Chaos Mod, I will mix it in and we can start this week ?

[archaeolept]

the hornblower shows up as a pretender - I'm trying out that package, hoping to familiarize myself w/ the nations in time for whenever the next WH game is (hopefully soon!). Is he displacing some national? I certainly didn't see any chaos god pretender choice. I do have CBM 1.6 enabled...

also, the sprites in some of these mods are simply amazing. I didn't think such artistry and attention to detail was even possible, given the limitations.

[archaeolept]

the magic paths for itza and chaos commanders are messed up. I doubt that the 1 gp chameleon skink scout is supposed to have 1a 4s, or the skink priest 4d 1n 3? (also warchief and oldblood have hvy paths) - and, strangely coincidentally, 3 of the 4 chaos "lords" have no magic at all... for 400 gp that seems a bit steep

[Squirrelloid]

Ok, i've reviewed the amonchaos version

Lord of the Endtimes should be corrected to the version we discussed burnsaber. Also, with those corrections, new paths should also be reduced to 50 instead of 80. The amonchaos version is unplayably expensive (and has encumbrance too, so its 150pts for probably a 50pt chassis). Not that I plan on using one.

I've come to the conclusion that the lords are all priced wrong and far too high, with the possible exception of tzeentch. The champions are probably also poorly priced too. Details:

General: All the lords should have at least H1.

Nurgle Lord isn't even that good. He can't SC, and he has no magic, so he's just a glorified thug. The lord is lucky if he's 200g good, which gives me doubts on the 200g pricetag of the champion. Fix: I don't know man. Dropping the price to 200g would mean needing to seriously re-evaluate teh champion.

Slaanesh was somewhat playable in the original, but not amazing. Amonchaos then goes and nerfs his enslave attack to be easily resisted (at least i think it was changed - before amonchaos i had 80-90% success using it against indies), and now its mostly useless. Drop the price to 250 and restore the enslave attack to not be easily resisted. (even with the dropped pricetag, its not exactly an attack that chaos will be *spamming*)

Tzeentch Lord: Agree with 500g pricetag, given caveat on H1 above.

Khorne: The 3 fatigue per turn absolutely kills the utility of this unit early, and its a glorified thug later. probably 200-250g.

That brings us to champions:
With the exception of Tzeentch I'd drop the champions to 100-150g tops. Probably Slaanesh >= Khorne > Nurgle, but rated at something like 125g, 115g, 90g or something like that. I might also consider giving them H1 at those or slightly higher prices. (Compare to jotun herses/jarls. Yomi may also be a decent nation to compare to). Tzeentch may deserve a mild price decrease, say 175.

Basically, the chaos lords and champions are priced as if they had halfway decent magic. Tzeentch meets that expectation, but the others definitely don't. I suppose the alternate fix is to give them reasonable magic, but that strikes me as harder. (I suppose Nurgle Champions could have D2H1 and the Lord have D4H2, with W2H1 and W4H2 for Slaanesh. Giving Khorne magic is sort of out of the question, and that's not an exciting amount of magic - probably still worth a mild price decrease, eg, 175 and 350ish pricetags. It would also make the Nurgle Lord actually good at some point since eventually he can cast Soul Vortex). Under this theory, Tzeentch Champion should keep the 200 pricetag and probably become S2 + 50%S + 33%S, as H1 seems less thematic for Tzeentch, but the current state of the Tz champion is acceptable.

The troops, on the other hand, do seem relatively reasonably priced.