Mod: Warhammer Dwarfs, version 0.92 -- Quickfix

[alansmithee]

Originally Posted by Burnsaber

The thing is that you can't script pd, allowing prospectors to raid even 15+ pd provinces without losses. Combine this with stealth. Also "no battlefield magic" is a pretty heavy statement. Everyone seems to overlook Journeyman Runesmiths. Sure, E2 is not much, but it is everything you need, especially if you give them Earth Boots.

There's many things that are able to raid provinces, I don't think prospectors are unusual in that regard. I just think it might be a bit hasty, considering most (if not all) of the testing has been coming against AI opponents.

And E2 isn't much at all, especially since you can't really afford to span the journeymen (with castles costing so much, you need someone to research) and they can't lead troops. Also, most of the big earth combat magic is really exhausting, and you're wasting at least one turn to summon earthpower them.

Going after anvils really also has the benefits of giving you all the runes right there.

[rdonj]

The thing prospectors do that normal PD raiders don't though, is flee rather than dying when they fail. They're also pretty cheap. You're expending a lot of effort to make large enough groups of them to take out significant PD, should your opponent choose to field it. But chances are you'll never lose a single prospector to anything but routing. Except possibly battlefield-wide AoE spells.

As for journeyman runesmiths, well, honestly so far mostly I've used them to run around and build forts/temples... but they are still quite useful in battle. They can cast plenty of decent spells with just summon earthpower. I'm not quite sure why it's a "waste" of a turn to cast, either... summon earthpower is a quite handy buff. The only thing I really miss from them is the rune of grungni (which is only marginally better than legions of steel anyway). But a journeyman runesmith can cast just about every other buff you'd want. Just bring a runesmith around for weapons of sharpness and you're good.

[rdonj]

I realize the AI is a spectacularly bad opponent to test on for this, but I decided, basically, I was going to try to beat the AI with armies of nothing but prospectors. Took O3/P1/G3/L3 with a dormant dom10 brother of war for scales and domspread ability.

For the first phase of the game, I did the two prospector+two rounds of crossbowman production expansion while I built up castles, to produce more and more groups like this. Eventually, when it started becoming too expensive to produce max crossbowmen every turn from every fort, I stopped producing them altogether to focus just on forts and prospectors. I'm now in late winter of year 3, producing 22 prospectors each turn, who in turn generate essentially 88 freespawn every turn... who do 24 damage a hit, screw with opponent scripting, have pretty decent armor, etc. Long story short, swarms of prospectors are entirely capable of killing entire armies by themselves with no losses or even any real danger to them. Maybe if you start bringing real magic into the battles things would change a bit, but I don't think there's much chance of actually getting any kind of real attrition in on said prospector swarms.

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by alansmithee

And E2 isn't much at all, especially since you can't really afford to span the journeymen (with castles costing so much, you need someone to research) and they can't lead troops. Also, most of the big earth combat magic is really exhausting, and you're wasting at least one turn to summon earthpower them.

E2 is enough for you to cast Legions of Steel, Earth Might/Strength of Giants, Armor of Achilles/Destruction and Earth Meld (+ you have Grudgestone). Those spells, if used right, can be a lot more devastating than the exhausting Blade Wind. Armed with boots, Journeymen can also take care of casting Weapons of Sharpness.

"Summon Earthpower" as a waste of turn? That reinvogration bonus is absolutely awesome. I often cast it as my first spell, even if the caster isn't likely going to cast any other earth spells (like E2F3 mage for example). Journeymen are also your most cost-effective researchers in the terms of upkeep.

On other news, my final exam for this fall will be Wednesday. I'll start forging the 0.8 update after that.

Althought I got a surge of inspiration today and drew Thorgrim (The High King, holder of the Book of Grudges). I'll probably fiddle with the axe a bit, but other than that, he's pretty finished.

[alansmithee]

Originally Posted by Burnsaber

E2 is enough for you to cast Legions of Steel, Earth Might/Strength of Giants, Armor of Achilles/Destruction and Earth Meld (+ you have Grudgestone). Those spells, if used right, can be a lot more devastating than the exhausting Blade Wind. Armed with boots, Journeymen can also take care of casting Weapons of Sharpness.

"Summon Earthpower" as a waste of turn? That reinvogration bonus is absolutely awesome. I often cast it as my first spell, even if the caster isn't likely going to cast any other earth spells (like E2F3 mage for example). Journeymen are also your most cost-effective researchers in the terms of upkeep.

By waste of a turn, I mean it's entirely necessary to cast it to be able to reach any of the decent spells, as opposed to being optional (but amazing) for higher earth caster. Also, legions of steel is inferior to the national spell. And iirc Destruction and Earth Meld have pretty high fatigue, too (I had them in mind, not just blade wind)

I actually love the journeymen, I just don't think they're well-built to be handling much combat casting.

[rdonj]

Well, when I was playing the dwarfs, my most generic sequence of orders for a journeyman runesmith was Summon Earthpower, Legions of Steel, Strength of Giants, X, X.

With a runesmith, my order sequence was Rune of Grungni, Summon Earthpower, Strength of Giants, X, X.

These are pretty similar buff cycles honestly, and while the rune of grungni is slightly superior to legions of steel, it's not really that superior on dwarfs, who have high MR and don't get the weapons of sharpness effect that often. Anyway, once you get construction 7 I think journeyman runesmiths are almost superior to real runesmiths for the majority of your battlefield needs. With boots and summon earthpower they reach four earth, and if you really want it higher and can make one, a crystal shield will bring them to the same spellcasting fatigue as a runesmith with 5 earth magic. Four earth is enough for almost anything you could need, and will allow you to cast all the buffs you want. More cheaply, and for less fatigue than a runesmith due to the lesser spellcasting encumbrance.

Another interesting thing you could do, since dwarfs forge so cheaply, would be to make communion matrixes with your astral random runelords. Then you can make communions with your runesmiths for things like petrify spam, or actually get someone to a decent level of astral magic other than an anvil.

[mehrunes_dagon]

I'm playtestesting Dwarves version 0.7 against other warhammer nations, with mighty AI (=160% bonus). Anvil of doom, when summoned at least every 2nd turn, is a real killer. I'm filling hall of fame with them.

I suggest making them immobile, increasin their gem cost, making the one who summon them 10 years older, increasing research level of the killing runes, or something like that

[rdonj]

Originally Posted by mehrunes_dagon

I'm playtestesting Dwarves version 0.7 against other warhammer nations, with mighty AI (=160% bonus). Anvil of doom, when summoned at least every 2nd turn, is a real killer. I'm filling hall of fame with them.

I suggest making them immobile, increasin their gem cost, making the one who summon them 10 years older, increasing research level of the killing runes, or something like that

Please never do any of these. Oh dear god, please. That would be just crippling. If you really need to nerf them, maybe make the runes have some sort of fatigue cost attributed to them so the anvils can't cast all day. But anything beyond that would just be pointlessly excessive. The anvils are pretty much the only way the dwarfs are going to get any kind of decent battlefield magic other than earth, and the requirements are already pretty high. Given that they're also quite large and healthy, they should also make somewhat easy targets....

Anyway I think the anvil in its current iteration is an interesting sort of mechanic and I would like to see them stay as they are.