Nations under CBM 1.6

[Trumanator]

Well yes. Skratti are kickass.

[Mardagg]

4-5 hunters are an early game army,producable EVERY turn way before the end of year 1.They stomp indies and PD alike with no losses.
Building like 8+ per turn would indeed be putting all eggs in 1 basket.So cap only doesnt hurt here.Gold is for Forts and Mages.
Its obvious that e.g. E9N4 hunters are much more durable than unblessed ones.In turn they are much better for early expansion and early wars vs humans than the normal spiders,u prefer to use.
I pay for it with an imprisoned Pretender and odd magic paths for machaka.
Its a matter of preference,really.
Personally i think no other strat with Machaka can match the early game they got with blessed hunters now.Its not even close.
Thats why i like it.

[Squirrelloid]

N4 doesn't seem to make a big difference in black hunter performance. Given they have N natively, I'd rather invest in other blesses or scattered magic paths.

Consider F4 for some more offensive punch - should benefit all the attacks, and you're going to be outnumbered so better offense is good.

Consider S for just general use later, irrespective of its 'bless' potential.

I'd probably use a GE or Sphinx chassis imprisoned, and grab at least plausibly good scales. (Pr3L3 are the ones i'd definitely try to get. Dr2 is acceptable, H3 is obvious. Could consider turmoil, but i'd rather take the drain so i had more cash to build forts/labs. Growth or Order is good if you can find the points).

[Mardagg]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

N4 doesn't seem to make a big difference in black hunter performance. Given they have N natively, I'd rather invest in other blesses or scattered magic paths.

Afflictions are a pain for the hunter riders,since low HP units with high prot do survive some hits,but have a v high affliction chance.U rack them up in no time.

I prefer having N4 therefore for much reduced affliction chance,regen on the rider(low but makes a difference together with high prot) and foremost,regen on the spider.
Ive tried all possible bless combos keeping decent scales in mind,and E9N4+ seems to make early game with hunters the best.
F4 looks ok on paper,but i dont have the points left after choosing my build.Earth Mother for E+N seems ideal...for me.
I wont tell my scales,since i plan to use this build in my next MP game.

[vfb]

I wouldn't take E9 with CBM, E9 will just keep your rider alive longer. Now that MR on the hunter spider is acceptable, there's not much reason to want the rider to stay alive. So, grab yourself a rainbow bless and/or some nice scales.

[Mardagg]

Originally Posted by vfb

I wouldn't take E9 with CBM, E9 will just keep your rider alive longer. Now that MR on the hunter spider is acceptable, there's not much reason to want the rider to stay alive. So, grab yourself a rainbow bless and/or some nice scales.

The rider got a lot more offensive power.
If you want to push the early game with Machaka as much as possible,like i do,E9 is a must.Reinvig + 4 more protection make your riders like 3 times more durable.
And i get pretty nice scales,too,btw...

But sure,like Sombre mentioned before,concentrating on the spider is an interesting option now and allows for a lot more magic diversity.The MR is still low,though.

[Squirrelloid]

See, i don't like N4 because in testing the riders rarely took damage at all against indies, so who cares if they reinvig? And against other players your sacreds are hardly your strength. And when they did get an affliction I generally didn't care.

I'd rather get some astral on my pretender, for example, or do just about anything but get more N in a nation that already routinely gets N3 on Sorcerors.

Great Mother seems like a waste of points since there's no real reason to invest in a super high dominion either. Take a master druid if you absolutely must have E+N.

[vfb]

Originally Posted by Mardagg

The rider got a lot more offensive power.

Are we talking about the same thing?. The only weaponry on a Black Hunter that's more damaging than a Hunter Spider is its lance. And it gets to use that once per battle. And since your numbers are probably smaller than enemy numbers, oneshot weapons don't make a whole lot of difference. If you're fighting equivalent-sized units: you own Elephants no matter what shape you are in; if you're fighting Hydras, then you're better off in spider shape anyway.

I'd rather pay zero upkeep than have the lance.

Originally Posted by Mardagg

If you want to push the early game with Machaka as much as possible,like i do,E9 is a must.Reinvig + 4 more protection make your riders like 3 times more durable.

Yeah, that was my whole point. You want the rider to die.

Originally Posted by Mardagg

And i get pretty nice scales,too,btw...

Good for you. With a rainbow bless, you'll have additional magic diversity too.

Originally Posted by Mardagg

But sure,like Sombre mentioned before,concentrating on the spider is an interesting option now and allows for a lot more magic diversity.The MR is still low,though.

No it's not, it's 10, which is average (and just 1 less than the rider had). And it's more than 10 if you take an S bless from a rainbow god.

E9 buys you nothing for the late game, and it makes your net income lower.

[Mardagg]

Huh?
The rider got a spear in addition to the lance.
In addition,the death poison attack of the rider is strength 18,whereas the spider only bites with strength 13.Thats quite a big difference for such a powerful attack.

[Mardagg]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

See, i don't like N4 because in testing the riders rarely took damage at all against indies, so who cares if they reinvig? And against other players your sacreds are hardly your strength. And when they did get an affliction I generally didn't care.

I'd rather get some astral on my pretender, for example, or do just about anything but get more N in a nation that already routinely gets N3 on Sorcerors.

Great Mother seems like a waste of points since there's no real reason to invest in a super high dominion either. Take a master druid if you absolutely must have E+N.

right,with E9 your riders are hardly damaged,but if you are swarmed in big indie fights that 1regen +less affliction chance is extremely good.They are hit rarely,but its like ever 2nd or 3rd hit gets them an affliction without N blessing!

Also,i am talkin about early game,meaning also attacking humans as early as the the start of year 2,when you definately absolutely can rely on your hunters.In those fights,Nature is even more important.
Also,N makes the spider much better after the rider died(for the 4th time now!).

Sure,S on pretender would be nice.I have to rely on Shamans and arcane probing to at least to be able to forge some items later on.Without clams though,your opponents wont field that much astral anymore.And since i want to emphazize on early and midgame with that paths,i dont care.
You can also find good astral mages on earth sites e.g..

You are right,the Master Druid leaves you with 184 points left taking Dom 5 ,the mother 168.If u take Dom 6,they are equal.
Thanks for this,the Druid is indeed slightly better there..