Odd OBB/ campaign buy screen problem ...

[Arralen]

I'm having a very odd OOB/ campaign buy screen problem, and at first I thought I caused it myself by fiddling with some unit structure etc., but I went back to the default OOBs, and things do not look much better then.

Long Campaign, Germany (OOB 16).

Start date: 2/40 - 5/41
In every case, the "Armour" buy list does not show it 2nd page.

Only from 6/41, with the east front opening up, the buy list becomes 2 pages long.

I suspect, though, that this is in error, and that there are a handful of formations which should be available, but cannot be bought, because the list does not roll over: When buying for a single battle with the same date, one gets nearly 2 pages full of formations ... .

This problem became apparent to me when I, as I said, fiddled with F349 (3 gun platoons, 1 scout group + car as command squad - why aren't there any command squads, btw.?).
Changing the formation made it drop down to the end of the list - where it was visible in single battle mode, or from 6/41 onwards in the campaign (though it's available from 2/40). From 2/40 to 5/41, only the squads (F348) where visible on their "old place" in the buy list!

EDIT: Here's a screenshot - default OOBs to the left, my OOB to the right. Both buy list @ 5/40, Tobruk. As one can see, with the modified list the "PzJg Kp Sfl" has vanished from the list (dropped down to last place, on the unaccessible 2nd page), and the "NbFz Zug" has appeared instead.

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

Originally Posted by Arralen

I'm having a very odd OOB/ campaign buy screen problem, and at first I thought I caused it myself by fiddling with some unit structure etc., but I went back to the default OOBs, and things do not look much better then.

Long Campaign, Germany (OOB 16).

Start date: 2/40 - 5/41
In every case, the "Armour" buy list does not show it 2nd page.

Only from 6/41, with the east front opening up, the buy list becomes 2 pages long.

I suspect, though, that this is in error, and that there are a handful of formations which should be available, but cannot be bought, because the list does not roll over: When buying for a single battle with the same date, one gets nearly 2 pages full of formations ... .

This problem became apparent to me when I, as I said, fiddled with F349 (3 gun platoons, 1 scout group + car as command squad - why aren't there any command squads, btw.?).
Changing the formation made it drop down to the end of the list - where it was visible in single battle mode, or from 6/41 onwards in the campaign (though it's available from 2/40). From 2/40 to 5/41, only the squads (F348) where visible on their "old place" in the buy list!

EDIT: Here's a screenshot - default OOBs to the left, my OOB to the right. Both buy list @ 5/40, Tobruk. As one can see, with the modified list the "PzJg Kp Sfl" has vanished from the list (dropped down to last place, on the unaccessible 2nd page), and the "NbFz Zug" has appeared instead.

So you're using a MODDED OBB?
you might have messed something up if you are.

[Arralen]

Originally Posted by iCaMpWiThAWP

So you're using a MODDED OBB?
you might have messed something up if you are.

Go back, read everything again

The modded OOB made my spot the error, but it's there with the default OOBs as well.
It did this because the formation edited last shows up last on the buy list - and in this case, not at all for 13 months where it should be nominally available!
Yet, with the default OOB, there are formations missing from the list, too - what you'll never know, unless you count them in the editor ... or look at the buy list for a single battle.

Still waiting for helpful answers ....

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by Arralen

I'm having a very odd OOB/ campaign buy screen problem, and at first I thought I caused it myself by fiddling with some unit structure etc., but I went back to the default OOBs, and things do not look much better then.

Long Campaign, Germany (OOB 16).

Start date: 2/40 - 5/41
In every case, the "Armour" buy list does not show it 2nd page.

Only from 6/41, with the east front opening up, the buy list becomes 2 pages long.

I suspect, though, that this is in error, and that there are a handful of formations which should be available, but cannot be bought, because the list does not roll over: When buying for a single battle with the same date, one gets nearly 2 pages full of formations ... .

This problem became apparent to me when I, as I said, fiddled with F349 (3 gun platoons, 1 scout group + car as command squad - why aren't there any command squads, btw.?).
Changing the formation made it drop down to the end of the list - where it was visible in single battle mode, or from 6/41 onwards in the campaign (though it's available from 2/40). From 2/40 to 5/41, only the squads (F348) where visible on their "old place" in the buy list!

EDIT: Here's a screenshot - default OOBs to the left, my OOB to the right. Both buy list @ 5/40, Tobruk. As one can see, with the modified list the "PzJg Kp Sfl" has vanished from the list (dropped down to last place, on the unaccessible 2nd page), and the "NbFz Zug" has appeared instead.

Hmm - there does seem to be a problem here, as you say. (My bet is a counter out by 1??), the usual 'C/C++' problem . I will look into this.

There are no 'command' units because the game has no need for such, and labelling special units as 'commander' is merely either cosmetic, or in the case of the AI, a gift to the human player since a 'command tank' is instantly identified as such and so basically has a giant "Kill me!" sign painted on it. ( A human might hide them though).

There are no needs for these extra units - and they would also increase the unit count in a game with limited units (24 in your core in the original SP, 200 now). There are no special units with long range radios for example - a radio is unlimited range and there is no concept of radio nets. Therefore no need for command tanks with extra radios for use on other nets for example. Every radio on SP works like a mobile phone. So no need for a post-war UK rifle company to have the 2 land rover FFR (fitted for radio) at coy HQ (one as rear link, one as the coy commander's bus to go visiting platoons or bn HQ in).

There are a few infantry formations where some OOB designer has used specific units of course. There are a few company commanders where they are labelled in an identifiable manner, or use a unique infantry class. Scenario designers who rename units to include command ID can also 'gift' free information to the human player (players if a PBEM).

UK rifle platoon HQs had the 2 inch mortar and ATR/PIAT, so are a case of being identifiable by their unique fire signature as in RL.

Cheers
Andy

[Mobhack]

Oh yes - another reason not to have these scouts or whatever 'commanders' in the AI forces.

They move at different rates and so the AI will never be able to keep any such platoons in a group - they will fall behind or kamikaze out front (e.g. a jeep commanding slow SP-AT). or they will obey different AI rules - so an APC with a commander on foot would charge forwards ("I am a loaded APC") while its SP-ATGM try to hold back for long range shots ("we are missile anti-tank") .

So the commanded units would soon be out of command control, either by distance or by decapitation of the kamikaze commanders...

There was no real code for keeping platoons together in the original SP AI code - now they do - so if the platoon commander is charging out in front (or holding back) then the faster/slower units may be 'pegged' to him, or in a rush to join him if he kamikazes out in front). SP platoons work best if all are similar - there is code for APC+infantry formations now, but otherwise there is nothing for mixed formation speed (or type of unit), e.g using the slowest for all. SP AI units still really are individuals, with no concept of formation. Other than the 'try to blob onto the platoon commander, if you can' we added, anyway.

Another minor item is that the listing code looks at the unit class of unit 0 of each formation to decide where to place it on the purchase list - so an SP-AT platoon that gets a scout as unit 0 will display somewhere completely different from the pure SP-AT ones.

Andy

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Arralen

I'm having a very odd OOB/ campaign buy screen problem, Start date: 2/40 - 5/41
In every case, the "Armour" buy list does not show it 2nd page.

Only from 6/41, with the east front opening up, the buy list becomes 2 pages long.

I suspect, though, that this is in error, and that there are a handful of formations which should be available, but cannot be bought, because the list does not roll over: When buying for a single battle with the same date, one gets nearly 2 pages full of formations ...

And when I check the SAME DATE ( 5 / 40 ) across three battle types ( Generated Battle, Long Campaign and Generated campaign )the results are the same in all three cases. No deviation whatsoever so go back and check the actual dates that appear for the battles because there WILL be a difference beween what's seen at 2/40 and what's seen at 4/40 and what's seen at 5/40

You claim your LC is set to start 2/40 as the Germans...... so what date is the first battle ?? It won't be 2/40 becasue there are no battles scripted in the code for 2/40. The first one will be 4/40 or 5/40

If you set up a generated campaign you WILL get a fictional 2/40 battle as you will with a generated battle and the Armour list for 2/40 in a Generated battle will be the same as is offered in a Generated Campaign but you will not see the same list in a Long Campaign becasue a long campaign will not start 2/40 and therefore you will see a different list.

HOWEVER....... with all the talk of modded OOB's and German LC's starting 2/40 ( they don't as noted above ) it threw me off and when all the tests came back the way I expected them to I didn't see that formation 301 ( NbFz Zug ) SHOULD be showing up as well but it's not and I think it's related to the fix we put in that corrected the problem we had of lists showing a second page available that turned out to be blank because there really wasn't anything else on the list even though the game thought there should be

Don

[Imp]

This problem became apparent to me when I, as I said, fiddled with F349 (3 gun platoons, 1 scout group + car as command squad - why aren't there any command squads, btw.?).
Changing the formation made it drop down to the end of the list - where it was visible in single battle mode, or from 6/41 onwards in the campaign (though it's available from 2/40). From 2/40 to 5/41, only the squads (F348) where visible on their "old place" in the buy list!

Not sure what you mean here but

only the squads (F348) where visible

If you mean only part of the formation showed up am guessing its made up of units with diffrent start dates some of which are not available at the current date.

[Arralen]

I'm running v4.0-CD.

I restored the default OOBs (again):
spob16.obf 15.12.2009 Version Nov/2009 (C) 2009 The Camo Workshop

Formation #300 NbFz(1) and #301 NbFz Zug - should be available 1/36 to 12/40 according to OOB editor.

Battle May/40 => 5/1940 Laon/French .. #300 NbFz(1) is there, #301 NbFz Zug is not

=> If you delete a formation visible on the list somehow (alter date, alter HQ unit to make it drop to the end of the list), the #301 NbFz Zug will show up instead. (as visible on the screenshots above)


Either that "counter is off by one" might be correct, or your "fixed" the wrong thing when you made the game not display the 2nd page, because not showing the page, but having it empty was the error.

I'm still trying to filter the OOBdump for "buy screen 1" formations available in 5/40 ... counting them by hand is too error-prone... ok, done:
26 formation should be in the buy list, but only 25 are displayed.

[Mobhack]

It is now fixed, and that will be in the next update.

Andy