Making something out of nothing (Can you turn this into a Thug?)

[chrispedersen]

probably very much like shockwave, the question is how do you position and script for maximum efficiency.

[Jarkko]

It actually works, when there is somebody to catch the arrows, at least against indies. Tried with three Leo's soloing a weak indy province, got trashed. Took two Leo's, added in the 15 Comitatense from the starting army, and no indy province (at Indy strength 5) seems to be able to stand against them.

Against Cavalry I start way back, slightly right from center, with the comitanense with Hold and Attack closest, the Leo's starting on both flanks and slightly more to left. Leo's are scripted Hold,Hold,Attack,Burning Hands x2 (and nothing after that). Works wonderfully.

Against everything else the Comitanense is scripted Attack Closest, starting as far right as they can. The Leo's start slightly to left on each flank, with Attack, Attack, Attack, Burning Hands, Burning Hands (and nothing after that). Even Barbarians are burned and routed fast.

I attacked 8 indy provinces with that army, lost one Comitanense (against a province with knights and crossbowmen) in the process. In practically all the fights the Leos were also hit (the other one lost an eye somewhere along the road), but they seem to be quite tough indeed. I am frankly quite amazed at how efficient killing machines they turned out to be.

Then again, just a test vs indy provinces with easy research and an awake Great Sage pretender, so Burning Hands was available on Turn 2. So can hardly be extrapolated that far, but still, under right circumstances the Leo's certainly could be used as front line damage dealers.

[Fantomen]

Thats a cool discovery Jarkko. Got to do some tests now.

[chrispedersen]

LA Pythium doesn't have native access to air;

Both the comitanse have 50% fire resistance. The other fire thrower is a 1f ?(FE). Which works well with eagle eyes. Which is why I think the research path for Pythium is evocation, not conjuration.

As for the results 15 or so comitense can take almost any indy, anyway, so I'm not sure we're adding much via the leo.

[Jarkko]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

As for the results 15 or so comitense can take almost any indy, anyway, so I'm not sure we're adding much via the leo.

Indeed, the Comitanense are tough, they have lots of staying power. They walz through weaker indies like nothing even alone (just a commander to lead them is needed). However, when I've tried to use them (even with the help of a prophet) against knights or barbarians, they've gotten trashed. The Leos added quite a punch to that staying power (and the Leos themselves have nice staying power to stand up front to deal the damage). Yet, as I mentioned, I wouldn't advice anybody to actively go for this strategy, but it certainly opened up to me that the Leos actually might have uses in certain situations, and I actually believe I might have a cunning plan for them in a few situations (need to test this out first ).

[Wrana]

Originally Posted by Jarkko

Indeed, the Comitanense are tough, they have lots of staying power.

I think about trying Limitani Solaris. They are cheaper, produced everywhere and have fire resistance in case Leo misses.

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by Jarkko

Indeed, the Comitanense are tough, they have lots of staying power. They walz through weaker indies like nothing even alone (just a commander to lead them is needed). However, when I've tried to use them (even with the help of a prophet) against knights or barbarians, they've gotten trashed. The Leos added quite a punch to that staying power (and the Leos themselves have nice staying power to stand up front to deal the damage). Yet, as I mentioned, I wouldn't advice anybody to actively go for this strategy, but it certainly opened up to me that the Leos actually might have uses in certain situations, and I actually believe I might have a cunning plan for them in a few situations (need to test this out first ).

Don't get me wrong.. I still like leos. body ethereal burning hands has a lot to recommend it.

that said, if you want to take out cav, 80 gold get you 10 netwielding retiaris.. a cheaper solution for cavalry cannot be imagined.