Ring and Sphereworlds

Kagetora · #1 January 1st, 2001, 02:08 AM

Lintman, I will tell you what my problem is. It is pre pubescent little idiots like you that spend more time trying to figure out how to cheat than to play the game correctly. That spend more time bragging about doing something totally useless and pointless in a game situation just because you think it is cool or something. Well I personally and I don't think I am a minority in this are looking for information and strategy that will allow us to play fairly and without exploiting the system against the AI and more importantly against humans in multiplayer. Not only did his post nor yours for that matter do this but now the programmers will have to fix this exploit. Which these guys seem like they will keep up on but I have seen other games in which such exploits were never fixed and totally ruined multiplayer. Which would not matter in the slightest if idiots didn't spend their time looking for them and posting them in the first place.

Puke · #2 December 31st, 2000, 03:32 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Kagetora:
...looking for information and strategy that will allow us to play fairly and without exploiting the system against the AI and more importantly against humans in multiplayer. Not only did his post nor yours for that matter do this but now the programmers will have to fix this exploit.

sigh.. i should not bite on this, but.. lots of strategies get posted for this game. using retrofits is about as much cheating as using minefields that the AI cant use well. its about as much cheating as using ECM that is bugged and the AI cant use. its about as bad as applying the mine laying patch to allow minelayers to drop more than one per turn. its as bad as using tactical combat and taking advantage of stratagies that the AI cant use. its almost as bad as the people that like to use transports to deploy sats as a portable weapon pod against the AI early in the game, when it obviously does not work against humans quite as well.

hopefully people can exercise some restraint and good judgement when playing multiplayer games, and if not, hopefully people are bright enough to play with people they get along with.

there are lots of ideas bouncing around and this board is full of different ways to play the game. not everybody likes every way, but there is plenty for everyone to choose from and enhance their own playstyle. thanks for censoring an open forum, the internet is all about one person telling everyone else what is safe to read and think and do, glad you could jump in and help us there.

LintMan · #3 December 31st, 2000, 10:51 PM

lol - pre-pubescent? I'm probably close to twice your age. You make an issue of maturity, but you're the only one flinging insults around.

Let me add a few things to Puke's fine response...

If I wanted to "cheat", I'd turn on the cheat codes.

Things that take advantage of flaws in the games' design and regularly brought up and discussed on this board. Many of them might be considered abusive, but it is valuable discussion, since it brings awareness (and possibly leads to improvements in the game).
Why is awareness of these things good? Because what seems like a horrible exploit to you might seem like a reasonable feature to someone else. (Calm) discussion and awareness allow players to decide on what the accetable behavior/tactics are in their games together.

I also want to point out that Joda's trick is hardly a game breaker. As you yourself point out in your Posts, the reasearch and material costs of ring/sphere worlds makes them completely prohibitive in a close game. Joda's trick speeds up the construction process, but makes the already ungodly expensive proceess ****EVEN MORE EXPENSIVE****. That'll certainly be a critical edge to help you win games. NOT.

Lastly, in your original flame post, you never once mentioned WHY you were flaming Joda - just that his post was worthless and he was an idiot. I don't play multiplayer SEIV an never will - your cheating issue never occured to me. If you had remained calm and just stated why you felt as you did, I wouldn't have jumped in and maybe might have sympathized a bit.

apache · #4 January 1st, 2001, 04:17 AM

Well, I think thats a really interesting procedure myself. I also think that it is something that should not be able to be done. I am not saying that you should not be able to retrofit your way to a ring/sphere world, or anything else for that matter, that is perfectly logical and feasible.
However, the real problem here is that retrofits are instantaneous. With retrofits, you can produce components with more total cost than a shipyard can actually produce in one turn. I think that retrofitting a vessel should take time, not be instantaneous. Perhaps that time should be based on the time it takes to make those new components or the difference of cost between the old components and the new components.
Either way, retrofitting should just not be instantaneous, especially if its a starbase undergoing a massive retrofit or something. If some sort of system were put into place that cost more time for bigger refits, then sphere/ring worlds and other things could not be built faster than normal.

LintMan · #5 January 1st, 2001, 05:53 AM

quote:
Originally posted by apache:
Well, I think thats a really interesting procedure myself. I also think that it is something that should not be able to be done. I am not saying that you should not be able to retrofit your way to a ring/sphere world, or anything else for that matter, that is perfectly logical and feasible.
However, the real problem here is that retrofits are instantaneous. With retrofits, you can produce components with more total cost than a shipyard can actually produce in one turn. I think that retrofitting a vessel should take time, not be instantaneous. Perhaps that time should be based on the time it takes to make those new components or the difference of cost between the old components and the new components.
Either way, retrofitting should just not be instantaneous, especially if its a starbase undergoing a massive retrofit or something. If some sort of system were put into place that cost more time for bigger refits, then sphere/ring worlds and other things could not be built faster than normal.

I think a simple and reasonable fix would be for retrofits to be limited to one per turn for a given ship/base, which is apparently how it already works in simultaneous turn mode. Then you couldn't build a cheapie ship or base and then go through 20 upgrades in a single turn to super quickly make an expensive ship or base. You'd probably still might be able to make it a bit faster than normal with retrofits, but you'd have to start with a more expensive (and longer to build) ship to minmize the number of turns you spend upgrading, so it wouldn't be a big advantage.

Joda · #6 January 1st, 2001, 01:38 PM

I totaly agree that this kind of procedure should not be possible, and that it should take longer to retrofit a ship.
I would never use this method to cheat against a human or AI player, since that would make a possible victory less sweet. My reason for using this procedure was that in the game I was playing I was already winning (had accidently missed setting the AIs to max. difficluty

) and I wanted to se what a RW looked like before terminating the game. As LintMan pointed out, this method is ****EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE**** and I would not be able to afford this unless I already had conquerd many of my AI neighbours and taking their worlds, or by first growing that big by my self. But in the time it takes to grow THAT big you can construct mayby 2-3 ringwords the right way, so I would NOT call this cheating.
Mayby my original post is usless because of the extreeme cost of the procedure, but I thought mayby someone else in an similar situation just wanted to see that next level of technology implemented before playing a _real_ game. Anyway it has been posted, use it or don't, and if you do, let your own conscience (or the rules by wich you and your fellow gamers play) guide you.

Kagetora, I sense much anger in you, and anger leads to the dark side,
and the DARK SIDE leads to suffering. (sorry, I could not resist)

I also respect your stand in this matter but there is no need for harsh words.

DirectorTsaarx · #7 January 2nd, 2001, 05:06 PM

Beck:

Thanks for the info; I hadn't reached that population level yet (obviously), so I hadn't discovered the bug. What a pain. I'll send in to MM. They're almost off holiday now...

Maybe they just don't like the 200% production bonus? Or maybe one could add an extra level (the 13th), set to 200B population and 210% bonus... hmmmm....