MRAPs

[thatguy96]

Not all HMMWVs, all Up-Armored HMMWVs. This is an important distinction. This was the USMC plan with the original MRAPs and it didn't last long. It will be interesting to see if this actually comes to pass.

Modernized and recapitalized are also not the same. It amounts to overhauling them to a degree to which they have essentially "0 miles" on them. They'll still be the same models. The program initially took various subvariants no longer in widespread usage and upgraded them to a common standard.

The US military, and the Army in particular, doesn't really have a clear strategy yet for exactly how its going to integrate the MRAPs into the various wheeled vehicle upgrade programs its been working on for twenty years now. The M-ATV program really overlaps a lot with the JLTV program. There was some concern about whether the abortive MRAP II program was to have supplanted that requirement as well. It seems that the people running the JLTV have managed to keep it sufficiently separate to keep it funded for the time being. The Army has also expressed an interest in the HMMWV ECV 2 series as an interim step between the ECV series and whatever comes after the HMMWV.

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by thatguy96

Not all HMMWVs, all Up-Armored HMMWVs. This is an important distinction. This was the USMC plan with the original MRAPs and it didn't last long. It will be interesting to see if this actually comes to pass.

The US military, and the Army in particular, doesn't really have a clear strategy yet for exactly how its going to integrate the MRAPs into the various wheeled vehicle upgrade programs its been working on for twenty years now.

The US Army tends to create new units (platoons. companies, battalions, etc.) whenever they adopt a new type of equipment, such as a wheeled, light armored, light armed APC - i.e. MRAP.

My understanding is the USMC has never had any plans to create "MRAP" units. They have them, they use them, issuing them when needed to existing units (platoons and companies) as transport vehicles in place of trucks, LVT/AAV's, etc.

[thatguy96]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

The US Army tends to create new units (platoons. companies, battalions, etc.) whenever they adopt a new type of equipment, such as a wheeled, light armored, light armed APC - i.e. MRAP.

Actually, in this case the only service I know to have specifically created MRAP units is the USMC, which attached provisional companies of the vehicles to existing units to be doled out as needed.

I also wouldn't say the US Army creates new units every time a new piece of equipment comes along. It does modify the TOEs very often, but rarely is the unit designation changed. When the USMC creates a provisional unit they seem to apply a relatively unambiguous name, like "MRAP Company." The US Army on the other hand simply creates some magical MTOE from an existing one (or even makes an new official TOE), and then slaps something in parenthesis on the end that is decidedly more confusing. The basic unit designation doesn't change and is entirely based on the branch the unit is in.

As far as MRAPs are concerned, the only unit in the US Army that is specifically designed to use them are the Engineer Companies (Route Clearance), which were planned to be equipped with them when the vehicles were being tested prior to start of the craze in 2004. These units had been planned under the program to develop a Ground Standoff Minefield Detection System which started testing vehicles in 1999.

Originally Posted by Suhiir

My understanding is the USMC has never had any plans to create "MRAP" units. They have them, they use them, issuing them when needed to existing units (platoons and companies) as transport vehicles in place of trucks, LVT/AAV's, etc.

In 2007, the USMC had initiated a plan to replace all up-armored HMMWVs it had with MRAPs. By November 2007, the USMC had shifted its plan, reducing its buy significantly, with the balance going to services that had in the interim actually increased their buy (this was basically everyone else). The US Army has integrated these vehicles into existing units in lieu of HMMWVs for the most part, and trucks to a lesser degree. With the exception of the provisional companies already noted, this appears to have been the case in the USMC too. The new M-ATV is being similarly integrated in place of units that were to have been issued HMMWVs.

[Suhiir]

I wasn't clear when I said "create new units".

What I ment was, as you said, the USMC does tends to in fact create something like an "MRAP Company" and dole then out as needed.
Whereas the US Army tends to incorporate stuff into the existing MTOE thus essentially creating a new MTOE, thus "unit" type.

I'd heard about the fanciful notion to replace the all armored HMMWVs with MRAPs, and knew it'd been essentially stillborn.
What exactly do you have on M-ATV deployment, numbers, and incorporation, in the USMC?