OT: Let’s all take a deep breath

[Gandalf Parker]

Im not exactly sure of the numbers here.
I highly expect that no one is going to enter these threads jumping up and down doing the happy dance over someone being banned. In fact, I dont remember that ever happening with any ban. On the other hand, I wouldnt necessarily chalk up the lack of comment by most of the forum to mean they are unhappy with what happened. If anything, I think it might be more reasonable to consider the silent majority to be silent for a reason.

We arent going to know how often or what level of complaints Shrapnel gets about someone. We arent going to know why they do things. This is not unusual here. Its not unusual on any corporate server.

If you want a way to move on, then just accept that Shrapnel has an idea of what type of forums they want. And they have that right. Its their forums, on their machines, being offered for free. You have a right to disagree (someplace else), or you can join the ones in question who appear to have voluntarily called down punishments on themselves.

Over the last year Ive been tempted to give up and I have often considered just creating my own forum on Dom3Minions. But we all know how that goes. I talk about it, Sombre comments on my talking about it, then Sombre actually does it. And.... here we are again. Sombre actually did what I just thought about. I wish both the old forum (here) and the new forum (there) well in their endeavors.

Hopefully this doesnt violate my NAP with Shrapnel

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

If you want a way to move on, then just accept that Shrapnel has an idea of what type of forums they want. And they have that right. Its their forums, on their machines, being offered for free. You have a right to disagree (someplace else), or you can join the ones in question who appear to have voluntarily called down punishments on themselves.

Sure, it's Shrapnel's forum, and they can do what they want. But they should try to hold themselves to a higher standard. And it would be in their own self interest to do so, as it would look more professional.

Me, I'm just some guy. On the internet, you might expect a modicum of decency out of me. But maybe, as some guy, I'm a joker, or I get easily offended, or I think I know a lot. Some guys can often be irritating. But again, I think moderators for a business web site should not be acting like some guy. And because they have power, they should be extra careful about acting like just some guy. Because they're not - they have power, and they represent an institution. They should be better than that.

[Soyweiser]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

Hopefully this doesnt violate my NAP with Shrapnel

Que? Care to explain?

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally Posted by Soyweiser

Que? Care to explain?

Just putting it in Dom terms. Anyone who has been slapped here basically ends up with a Non-Aggression Pact of some sort. Its fairly common as part of the process here to get a small lecture where you promise not to do it again, or not to bait/troll that person again, or not to incite mutiny/riots again. Ive just always jokingly referred to mine as a NAP like we have in the game. (altho referring to the NAP is in itself kindof a slight violation of the NAP)

We dont know of course since Shrapnel does not make such things public. But I think its fairly obvious that some of the people we are talking about had ups and downs in their attitudes here which made me highly suspect that they also were operating under a NAP with Shrapnel and so I purposely tried to avoid making it any harder on them.

@TwoBits
I disagree. I disagree that they should because I disagree that they did not do it in the first place. Nor that there would be any huge benefit in it. I recognize your opinions in the matter but I wouldnt necessarily say they should be stated as facts as though the entire forum would see it that way. If this bothers you alot I will point to the title beneath my avatar. I disagree with that also but it has helped in the past with discussions like this to note who has what titles.

[Psycho]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

On the other hand, I wouldnt necessarily chalk up the lack of comment by most of the forum to mean they are unhappy with what happened. If anything, I think it might be more reasonable to consider the silent majority to be silent for a reason.

I just wanted to comment on this. I didn't say anything so far, since I didn't have any wise words that were not already said. But, the fact is that I am very dissatisfied by the whole situation and I can't imagine anyone not being.

Basically, the mods should have handled the situation much better. Things that llama and Festin wrote - these conclusions come naturally to me and I am surprised that mods think otherwise.

Originally Posted by Festin

It would make you look more professional, if instead of suddenly (at least from everyone else's point of view) banning people for obscure reasons, you gave a temporary ban and a public warning that such behaviour will not be tolerated, and then, if your warning was ignored, gave a permanent ban. It is as simple as that.

Originally Posted by llamabeast

In my opinion, clearly yes. I'm very surprised not everyone thinks the same thing. The public reaction has been the damaging thing, and I can't imagine anything like the same public reaction to a temporary ban. If multiple temporary bans led eventually to a permanent ban, there would be no outcry because it would have been obvious that it was coming.

[Tim Brooks]

That is my point...they didn't have any real power to do anything but ask for the 'Big Guns'. And usually when that second Cop shows up when you are stopped...someone goes to jail.

GrudgeBringer:

This is not true. The mods can and do have the power to ban anyone they think needs banning. We trust their decisions. In fact they have exercised this right in the last couple of days. How it came about that Annette actually did the banning of Sombre I am not sure. I am under the impression that the Mods available at the time were in total agreement with this.

Let me just say that I am glad it was Annette who did the banning, as she has been called everything from a liar to a prissy self important offendable drama queen. I am glad our volunteer mods didn't have to take the abuse.

On a side note: Are you ex-Military?

Regards,

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by Tim Brooks

Let me just say that I am glad it was Annette who did the banning, as she has been called everything from a liar to a prissy self important offendable drama queen. I am glad our volunteer mods didn't have to take the abuse.

On a side note: Are you ex-Military?

Regards,

Tim, I'm also glad then it was Annette who did the banning (although I'm sorry for all the childish crap insults she had to swallow - I guess that's the kind of garbage can expect from some guys, but I'm sure it still sucks), and not the volunteer moderators.

But then I take it Annette is not a volunteer? Meaning she's getting a paycheck from Shrapnel? Well, maybe that paycheck should include having a somewhat thicker skin, and the ability to shrug of the occasional nonsense from the occasionally troublesome poster.

Hey, I'm not saying she or you need to suck up endless amounts of crap. But you should have the ability to shrug plenty of that kind of stuff off. I mean, you're the Big Shots, right? You're getting a paycheck for this, not like us other clowns with too much free-time on our hands.

That gets back to the whole professionalism argument. Yeah, Sombre was a border-line troll (and maybe Maerlande too, but Trumenator and Frozen Lama also?), and so maybe it was ultimately necessary to get rid of him.

But was how you did it (done by apparently paid members of the Shrapnel organization?) the best way possible? And how does that relate to the following banning of the KotLK Three, anyway?

And, just to talk about trying to keep things impersonal, professional, detached, etc., how does asking GrudgeBringer if he's "ex-Military" have anything at all to do with what we're talking about?

Shrapnel people, I think you should take a giant step back, and give yourselves a 24 hour temporary ban! Collect yourselves! Cool down, and get that detached mentality you sorely need in this situation.

We appreciate hearing your contributions to this otherwise difficult 'situation', but as the responsible, power-holding folks you most certainly are, maybe you can't afford knee-jerk, off-the-cuff replies to what's going on.