Is CM Artillery too destructive?

[EJ]

All feedback is appreciated,

Should CMs destructive power be scaled down? In my opinion maybe a little. Any chance we can have a poll on this and vote whether to let it stay as is or scale it down? DON OR ANDY, What do you think?
I recently played a game against an opponent and this was his comment:They are too deadly -- they can wipe out a whole swath of troops in one blast and kill tanks. When u dropped them on me,I was lucky. There were three tanks in the line of fire. One was routed and damaged. In pbems I agree to limit them BUT not ban them from the game...

[Wdll]

This has been raised before, at least by me. I too believe they are too destructive, if nothing else in radius. Others asked me to remove them from our PBEM games and after a while I started asking for the same from other players. Not only that but I have stopped using them against the AI too. You can easily annihilate an enemy AI force in just a few turns just with CM artillery. You don't even need much.

I don't even remember the last time I played a PBEM game with CM artillery.

[EJ]

Wdll,

I agree that their destructive power is too potent. Maybe if ENOUGH people agree on this Don and Andy may scale their power down some....

[Imp]

This discusion was had before, if you buy sensible forces no need to restrict even the Americans will not have every tube of arty with CM.

There does seem a minor discrepancy between 155 & rocket CM if talking the standard 60 pen.
155 seems more dangerous possibly because warhead size 8 vs 2 (I think)
Just a feeling I have not tested.

How dangerous is it really though assume you fire a full volley of say 4 shots from a 155 you might get 2 or 3 vehicles.
A tank firing the same amount of shots could do the same but nobody complains when a tank takes out 2 or 3 vehicles in a turn.
Remember it might not have killed the tank just stripped it of all firing aids etc which in game terms is a kill.

Hitting vehicles takes skill with arty troops less so.
If I lose vehicles to it therefore its my fault should have moved, they are a big deterent.
If you play WW2 with lightly armoured tops need to ban big offboard arty for the same reason it kills armour. Damn hard though with call times.

If there was going to be a change second class of ammo resupply would be nice if it were possible.
New ones cant reload CM possibly SAMs cost same as the ones we have now.
The present ones have cost bumped by 250 points.

[JohnHale]

Has there ever been an occasion in Real Life (shudder) when cluster munitions have been used against armour/troops? I presume this must have happened in the recent "wars" against Iraq? If so - what were the reults?

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Posted by IMP on 12/22/09 0134 "CM arty modeling" pg.2 TO&Es last entry by DRG ON 02/07/10. Most answers can be found on pages 2-3. The tables show that WINSPMBT models it down from real life look up "Steel Rain" from the Gulf War. Look deeply into the references provided, you'll find your answers and you won't like them. I simply ended with, An argument can be made that the CM modeling is not powerful enough., or close to that. But heres another and there's so much more...
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ions/dpicm.htm Note para 4.
Regards,
Pat

[dsvet91]

MLRS CM as well a 155mm DPICM was devastating to Iraqi forces in Desert Storm. Just picture 8,000 DP munitions
(able to penetrate 4 in of armor) raining down on you in less than 60 seconds, now add a second launcher (we had 4 attached to our Task Force and they always fired in pairs) and thats a whole world of hurt.

The SP 155mm Arty we had was using DPCIM that was capable of 3 in armor penetration.

After seeing the results of a CM bombardment in real life
THE CM is not to powerful in the game.

[DRG]

Thank you. I hope this finally puts the entire issue to rest.

Don

[Marcello]

A couple of years ago I did a round of extensive tests about this issue; I used american 155mm guns and MRLS, edited to shoot the same number of rounds per engagement, and cluster of M1A2s as targets.
MRLS lethality appeared to be correct, these weapons are about as devastating in the game as in real life.
Tube artillery DPCM on the other hand was a bit off, in that its lethality, round for round, exceeded that of the rockets, despite the latter carrying a much greater number of submunitions.

[EJ]

Thanks all for the feedback....
[b]Don or Andy,
Any chance you will consider adjusting the potency of the rockets more than the tubes based on Marcello's analysis? As always thank you for keeping this game so interesting....