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  #1  
Old May 6th, 2010, 11:05 AM

Peter Ebbesen Peter Ebbesen is offline
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Default Re: OT: Let’s all take a deep breath

Quote:
Originally Posted by 13lackGu4rd View Post
nice argument, too bad it was entirely off topic. the passage I quoted of you clearly said that is doesn't violate the freedom of speech if you tell somebody who arrived at your home to not say a single word. you claimed it doesn't violate the freedom of speech when Shrapnel perma banned Sombre and others for speaking their minds, no matter how they said it. that was what you said and is what I corrected you on.
I have to admit that I failed to grasp what you intended with your last post as you jumped from my house example to universal rights to Venezuela/Cuba to nations in general to the question of democracy and freedom of speech and ended up with accusing me of hypocrisy for supporting Shrapnels' right to make deals with other people regarding the use of their forums, which you seem to consider for some reason to be a restriction of the freedom of speech.

Apparently your entire point was the last two or three lines coupled with the assumption somewhat along the lines of "freely entering into a deal with somebody else that requires you, as your part of the deal, not to speak about something specific is a violation of your right to the freedom of speech" but let's be fair here; Reading your previous post, how on earth was I to know that?



EDIT: Right, Ich. Deep breath. Thank you.
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  #2  
Old May 6th, 2010, 01:04 PM

chrispedersen chrispedersen is offline
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Default Re: OT: Let’s all take a deep breath

I don't agree by the way that the concept of free speech is a universal concept. And a little bit of history backs this up. Even in our american colonies we had taxes on books; and we came from a style of government where you could be imprisoned for wht you said.

Thats one of the reasons the rights enshrined in the constitution were so radical.

I do think that we have made great progress in much of the world convincing people that free speech is a good thing. However, I would say that in the muslim concept, in their uma, there is no such belief.

For example, note the willingness to issue fatwahs against the cpenhagen cartoonists. Similiar efforts to restrict free speech are under assault at the UN under the guise of religious liberty.
Likewise the saying in china is the tallest tree gets cut down first. conformity is valued more highly than exceptionalism or free speech. Perhaps justifiably as they have a lot of people that have to live in proximity.
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  #3  
Old May 6th, 2010, 01:27 PM
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Default Re: OT: Let’s all take a deep breath

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Originally Posted by chrispedersen View Post
I don't agree by the way that the concept of free speech is a universal concept. And a little bit of history backs this up. Even in our american colonies we had taxes on books; ...
And did you know eBay charges a 15% fee on the final sale price of a book! What kind of heartless corporate organization charges people more money because they want to read! Down with the British and down with eBay!
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  #4  
Old May 6th, 2010, 04:55 PM

13lackGu4rd 13lackGu4rd is offline
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Default Re: OT: Let’s all take a deep breath

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Ebbesen View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 13lackGu4rd View Post
nice argument, too bad it was entirely off topic. the passage I quoted of you clearly said that is doesn't violate the freedom of speech if you tell somebody who arrived at your home to not say a single word. you claimed it doesn't violate the freedom of speech when Shrapnel perma banned Sombre and others for speaking their minds, no matter how they said it. that was what you said and is what I corrected you on.
I have to admit that I failed to grasp what you intended with your last post as you jumped from my house example to universal rights to Venezuela/Cuba to nations in general to the question of democracy and freedom of speech and ended up with accusing me of hypocrisy for supporting Shrapnels' right to make deals with other people regarding the use of their forums, which you seem to consider for some reason to be a restriction of the freedom of speech.

Apparently your entire point was the last two or three lines coupled with the assumption somewhat along the lines of "freely entering into a deal with somebody else that requires you, as your part of the deal, not to speak about something specific is a violation of your right to the freedom of speech" but let's be fair here; Reading your previous post, how on earth was I to know that?



EDIT: Right, Ich. Deep breath. Thank you.
seems like you still failed to understand my point. I didn't accuse you of hypocrisy for supporting Shrapnel's policy, but for turning the freedom off speech on and off whenever it suits your agenda. claiming it doesn't count in your home, on private forums over the internet or wherever else is why I made such a claim.

also, I didn't criticize any specific policy in my post, you wanted it to be like that because that's what you're fighting with all the Sombre supporters in here. however I have not presented any side, neither Sombre's supporters or yours and your followers. I merely asked that you don't hold double standards but be consistent...

nor did I speak neither for nor against the freedom of speech concept in general. I merely acknowledged that it's a concept we live by in our Western world. nor did I accuse Shrapnel or yourself of not acting according to the Western standards of the freedom of speech.

as for Shrapnel, as I clearly said in the post above, it was within their absolute right to act the way they did. whether it was also necessary or not is still debatable, and seeing all the antagonism this decision created I'd have to say in hind sight that it wasn't. as to all you people who say "Sombre was rude, irritating, bashing newbies, etc" I have to ask, where were you all this time? now that he's been banned you wake up and defend the decision, but we never heard from you all this time, whats up with that? seems like Shrapnel's decision was driven by these people who never spoke up before hands, only minor incidents in some minor threads. so now, in hind site and without all the information, as they're still hiding most of it I must say I can't support it. that's not to say it wasn't the right decision at the time, nor whether I would have acted differently or not if I was to make the decision and had all the information they had.
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