Forget Missiles(other than early game)

[Socialist]

once we are playing TCPIP..human wise..

i find missles not so hot, other than early game against AI..when you are not fleet building heaviliy, I go for the +1 movement and Temperal knowledge. good med/long range
that burn up shields..and lots of point defense. missile carrying ships no good against them..most wont hit you but your basically a shield buster ship/ with shields and pd..good heavy duty workhorses..
of course..always work to to increase speed to close distance as fast as posible. above +1 you get as race bonus. simple and effective


it will work good against humans who are in love with the organic field..temporal is good anti to those who want to live off the bonus organics give you in early/mid game.

so i been working on strategys against missle lovers. and i found it works well.

with 3 level 5 PD...nothing hardly gets through..(put it on each ship...lots of hits)

not to mention..temporal basic weaopns hits all targets..making each ship useful for planet reduction and those pain in butt satilites.

cruiser getting 2-3 level 5 shield generators, little armour, 3 pd 5th level. and temporal weapons. handy dandy

------------------
Waves his Red flag

Socialist

[Sinapus]

I figured that out when I used the simulator to pit a group of my missile ships w/4 PDC Vs vs an equal number of missile ships. Was rather amusing.

Still, missiles might be useful if combined with other weapons, especially fighters. You can use the missiles to set off the point defense cannons in range and then send your fighters in unopposed. (Otherwise, you have to send one fighter group in to decoy all PD fire. Wild Weasels )

Hmm... maybe an ECM mod for missiles using the Component Enhancement rules will be possible.

I guess I'll add that to the list of "things to suggest" for Component Enhancement. Already suggested adjusting reload times so you can make a rapid-fire mount or something that fires slower for various reasons. Giving a seeker an ECM rating might be possible.

[Puke]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Socialist:
..temporal is good anti to those who want to live off the bonus organics give you in early/mid game.

---

how about crystal? I thought I was sitting high on the hog with my awesome and highly efficient organic armor. I had completely wiped out the need to research standard weapons, standard armor, or standard shields. Then I ran into a fleet mounting shard cannons, and went crying home to the retrofit depot. ow ow ow ow.

[Talenn]

In an attempt to make missiles more useful in later stages of the game I have made several changes to the dynamics. So far, it has worked out OK in our hot-seat games...

1) Increased the cost of researching PD weapons to 12500. That way it takes a sizable investment to reach level 5 unlike before. In the default set it cost almost as many RPs to get to missile 3 as it did to get to PD 5 and the missiles at that level are NO contest vs them.

2) To cover against early missile dominance, I added in an early model PD cannon that is available with Ship Construction 1..ie at the beginning of the game. It is similar to a PD 1, but takes 30kt and can only targer seekers, not sats and fighters.

3) Completely overhauled Plasma Missiles as I thought they were utterly useless as presented. I decreased their size (35kt as opposed to 50), increased their speed a tad and made them harder to shoot down (more seeker hit points). This makes them an ideal companion for the 'ship killers'. They are faster and harder to knock down so they tend to get out ahead and draw the pd fire. On their own they dont do as much damage so it pays to have a good mix and that was the effect I was looking for.

Overall, I think they are fairly balanced in this way except vs the AI which still gets absolutely devastated by the 'missile dance'. Human players simply pack a few ships with PD weapons and/or tractor beams and prevent the 'dance' quite effectively.

Late game tends to have missiles relegated to the support role particularly to help draw fire from the fighters. Also, targeting enemy PD ships early in a battle can really help put the hurt on the enemy fleet if you have a reserve of missile ships waiting.

Talenn

[Socialist]

well i like being able to counter missles
they are very powerful if you dont have enough pt. defense. and the hardcore missle lovers can turn a game very difficult for those who are not in like manner..so i love being able to counter that..

temperal weapons are not super special in dammage.but excellent agains shields..no matter what armour you use..once the shields are disabled..armour goes quick..its a one turn bonus..i make ships purposely to fire main large damage weapon after sheilds are down..bump off that heavy organic armour


well rounding ships is good..but i dont try to make them indestructable..they are going to be damaged..hehe

------------------
Waves his Red flag

Socialist

[Socialist]

one thing id like to see is making Torpedos something useful..add some bonus..(speed increase as they move..or something)
make a reason for even investing in them..

super range or massive damage..something interesting..right now..they have about as much use as a tit on a boar hog

------------------
Waves his Red flag

Socialist

[Instar]

I've made a really successful missile ship that carries 8 missiles, thats more than enough to get through any PDC's (Unless the guy is nuts about PDCs)
Plus PDC's usually go after missiles before fighters, so they can be used to decoy shots away from fighters.

[Socialist]

instar..well..one time in meeting a missle laden ship..and guess what..pd v frigates start appearing with nothing else but a load of those guys ehehe

a human will react quickly after meeting one of those squadrons. grin..

i know humans love missles..(long range..save their s hips from damage..i go the other way..i rather be fast and close hard...anything to keep missles from being a threat...make em fight you up and close hehe

------------------
Waves his Red flag

Socialist

[Puke]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Socialist:
i know humans love missles..(long range..save their s hips from damage..i go the other way..i rather be fast and close hard...anything to keep missles from being a threat...make em fight you up and close hehe

---

heh, and here I thought the Soviets liked polishing their rockets! Waiting for that IP match, Socialist.

[Strategia_In_Ultima]

PDs are CERTAINLY overkill against units. Therefore, in my Capship Mod (under construction), I have altered the PDCs to target only missiles... and I have also created a couple of armored missiles. One type with 70kT damage resistance, and one with 100kT. Makes missiles still useful.