Merkava.

[Mobhack]

As regards any troop carrying Merkavas.

We have to take cognisance of the fact that this capability is a 'party trick' that is in reality only of use in very special circumstances in the real world.

Now - should we make a merkava as an APC class, wargamers would simply stop buying namer etc APC as there would be "no need for these". But the Israelis are still building APCs, even ones based on the merkava chassis. So there must be some "need" for such in the real world.

All videos I have seen of any such deployment of infantry from merkavas shows only troops in belt equipment order. No packs, no sign of any heavy weapons (LMG, AT weaponry etc). In other words - there is little or no room for anything else other than personal weapons in the tunnel of the thing.

No doubt the infantry cannot carry any useful load when sardine-canned in there. They probably have to be very good friends with each other too !. The game does not however, have any fatigue levels to apply to such a sardine pack after some rough country crossing.

We could make a "merkava dismount team" with reduced ammo, no heavy weaponry etc to reflect the light belt order - but if they were 8 or 9 men, then the wargamers would naturally ignore those units and stuff in para squads, rifle sections etc. to make up the carry capacity of 8 or 9 as the game has no way to limit the infantry carried. Wargamers will exploit any loophole they can.

I think that at the best, a carry of 4 would be the most I would ever credit them with. Maybe 6 to alow sayret scouts (sp). That would allow a scout team or a bailed tank crew. An APC class to allow the protected flag to be set, so they don't get hosed off the back deck by MG fires. And then merkavas would need to be in another unit class from the MBTs (or umpteen duplicated APC slots would be needed). The AI also handles APCs differently from MBT (it will probably scarf up any loose scouts, inf-at etc and load them into such "APC"). It will drop and retire these (maybe good, maybe expose their rear ends) and attempt to shuttle troops with them. APCs are not tanks to the AI!.

There would also be no formations of merkava (APC) with integral infantry though - any pax would be random pick-ups. The tank units don't command the dismounts.

But firstly kevineduguay1 - go to tanknet (http://208.84.116.223/forums/index.php?act=idx) and set up an account there and post a question on the practicalities of the merkava's alleged dismount capability in the AFV forum there. I'll monitor the response from the experts. I'm more interested in what they have to say than some amateur enthusiast's website.

Should they think it is in some way practical, then we can think about it for the next patch.

Cheers
Andy

[kevineduguay1]

DRG,

Sorry about that. Almost if not all quotes are from the site I posted on page 1 of this thread. Most are on the opening page and some are contained in the links on that page.

Mobhack,

On real World need,

Durring the Lebanon conflicts the Israelis had no real heavy APCs that could stand up to the huge amount of RPGs and ATGMs operated by the enemy. The 113s, Pumas, and Achzarit could have hardly been expected to stand up to such weapons without loosing many men and vehicles. At this time the Namer was only a dream. You still need infantry to cover your tanks, even the mighty Merkava has its limits. The solution was loading the infantry into the Merkava. They could ride to where they were needed under the heavy armor of these tanks, deploy where needed, and have the advantage of having a MBT for supporting fire.

If you look at the pic on the site I posted most if not all the troops have some sort of backpack. It's not the size of the one carried by U.S. troops but is there none the less. One pic is a view from inside showing 4 soldiers on the way out and they all have packs on.
Maybe no LMG but a SAW for sure. I have already made clear that no TOW teans, Dragons, Spikes, Or Javalins should be carried inside the Merkava. A LAW size weapon would be no problem. Besides with a MBT for fire support what do you need anti-tank weapons for?
Yes they are packed in tight. As much was said on the site I mentioned above.

Merkava dismount teams,

No real need for these. In my experiments I use a Sayeret section and add a sniper or two. This will have to be up to the individual player as it is in real life. But only 8 men and no heavy weapons. Carry capacity 8.

Class,

I classed mine as Unit Class 127 Gun APC but have not experimented with the AI useing the Merkava with this classification. And like you mentioned this could be a problem for the AI.

Formations,

I did not put any infantry in my formations either. Again this should be up to the player. Some sort of Merk Infantry formation may be nessessary for the AI to use. This would be quite the experiment.

I have registered at Tanknet and will ask the question to see what comes up.

The author of the Amateur site I posted is an Israeli tanker. His tank is the "Black Mamba" a MkIV. Pictures of his tank and crew are also on the site.

Hope I covered everything. I'll get the question posted on Tanknet.